My 1st Rifle! Need help identifying Lee-Enfield

canuckbacon

canuckbacon

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I am going to preface with I will have to take better pictures in due time.

I bought this New-to-Me sporterized No.4 Mk1 * (star) Lee-Enfield. And I noticed there really aren't that many marks or stamps on it at all. I've identified a C⬆ (C with arrow up through the center) on the top of the barrel which leads me to believe it was produced in Canada and on the side of the receiver, clearly stamped is :

C No. 4 Mk 1 *
Long Branch
1950

Other than that there is a difficult to read serial number on the bolt (74 L 6117 I think???). On the Barrel, a roman numeral 1, .5C, crossed arrows and a few other small stamped symbols on the barrel that are hard to read. I will take some better pictures tomorrow

Anyone know what these mean?20240921_024035.jpg
 

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Your first picture - the stamp with crossed pennants and letter on left and right - numeral below - that was normally the "proofing" stamp from the Birmingham Proof House in England - was NOT applied when the rifle was owned by a military, but WAS applied when the rifle was to be sold for civilian use. Go here: https://www.hallowellco.com/proof_date_codes.htm - you should be able to figure out what date the proofing occurred, from the letters to left and right of that crossed pennant stamping. The numeral below the stamp is apparently the ID number of the person that did the proof test - I do not know of a resource to put a name to that number.
 
From looking at various stampings over the years - what you interpret as ".5C" might really have been "apostrophe 5 0" - has been enough examples that I have looked at of partial stamps, miss-struck stamps, etc. - not sure that the "powers that were", at the time, were really too fussy about it.
 
So far as I know, the rifle's serial number should be stamped on the left side of the "wrist", for rifles made at Long Branch Arsenal - that number there, will tell you whether that bolt originally belonged to that rifle or another. There were "spare bolts" made - no numbers - a number was stamped on the bolt handle, to match to the rifle, once that "spare bolt" was "fitted" to that receiver - even bearing on locking lugs, etc. The number on the bolt handle is a British, and therefore, Canadian, thing - was NOT done by USA military for their bolt action rifles - I do not know how they matched up a bolt to a rifle, or if they cared. British and Canadian armourers certainly did.
 
Potashminer said:
So far as I know, the rifle's serial number should be stamped on the left side of the "wrist", for rifles made at Long Branch Arsenal - that number there, will tell you whether that bolt originally belonged to that rifle or another. There were "spare bolts" made - no numbers - a number was stamped on the bolt handle, to match to the rifle, once that "spare bolt" was "fitted" to that receiver - even bearing on locking lugs, etc. The number on the bolt handle is a British, and therefore, Canadian, thing - was NOT done by USA military for their bolt action rifles - I do not know how they matched up a bolt to a rifle, or if they cared. British and Canadian armourers certainly did.
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There is no number on the wrist or trigger guard, I looked thoroughly for more stamps while cleaning and couldn't find any
 
The
Potashminer said:
Your first picture - the stamp with crossed pennants and letter on left and right - numeral below - that was normally the "proofing" stamp from the Birmingham Proof House in England - was NOT applied when the rifle was owned by a military, but WAS applied when the rifle was to be sold for civilian use. Go here: https://www.hallowellco.com/proof_date_codes.htm - you should be able to figure out what date the proofing occurred, from the letters to left and right of that crossed pennant stamping. The numeral below the stamp is apparently the ID number of the person that did the proof test - I do not know of a resource to put a name to that number.
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Proof marks date the rifle to having been sold for civilian use between 1985-97 as for the number below almost impossible to tell, but the proof stamps across all pieces match so at least even if it was refurbished and parts arent matching it was done by the military I'd assume
 
canuckbacon said:
Proof marks date the rifle to having been sold for civilian use between 1985-97 as for the number below almost impossible to tell, but the proof stamps across all pieces match so at least even if it was refurbished and parts arent matching it was done by the military I'd assume
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Another option is that some Bubba put a bunch of pieces together, after the rifles were sold off after they were in military service - I have received a P14 that way - no magazine box - seller claims he did not know one was supposed to be in there. Generally, my opinion is that WWII rifles had to be "good enough" - not necessary the "best" possible - and then literally millions of them were sold off - often very cheaply - then - sometimes by the pound, following WWII - so was a time when lots of bits available cheaply and some people decided they could make a dollar by putting together something that would go "bang", at least once. The fact that you do not see a serial number on that receiver, suggests that the serial number has been scrubbed off at some point - there could be various reasons why someone did that. The number on the bolt handle is NOT necessarily the serial number for the rifle, when it was made.
 
In 1950, Longbranch produced a limited number of Enfield No4*s with six groove barrels (Bren barrels), these rifles have a tiny 6 stamped on the right bayonet lug, you might want to check it.
 
I do not see a picture of the muzzle area - if that No. 4 was "sportered", is possible that the barrel was cut off and the bayonet lugs (even original front sight lugs) are not longer present. Back in the day, I had also filed off the bayonet lugs and front sight lugs, but left the barrel to original length.
 
Potashminer said:
Technically, that "C Broad Arrow" that you found on the barrel, was a sign that it (probably the barrel) belonged to the Canadian military, then - it does not tell you where it was made.
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On the contrary, the "5C" as has already been pointed out, is actually a mis struck 50 so the barrel is dated to the receiver, also dated as 1950 and the only manufacturer of the No.4's in Canada was Long Branch.
 
mephisto002 said:
In 1950, Longbranch produced a limited number of Enfield No4*s with six groove barrels (Bren barrels), these rifles have a tiny 6 stamped on the right bayonet lug, you might want to check it.
Click to expand...
mephisto002 said:
In 1950, Longbranch produced a limited number of Enfield No4*s with six groove barrels (Bren barrels), these rifles have a tiny 6 stamped on the right bayonet lug, you might want to check it.
Click to expand...
No bayonet lugs, it was taken off
 
Congrats on your purchase of a Number 4 Mk I* service rifle made by Canadian Arsenals (Toronto) in 1950. Too bad the bayonet lugs have been removed which hurts the value significantly. Your 1st pic demonstarates the date of manufacture (1950)of the barrel, the Dominion of Canada Proof mark placed on all Canadian made service rifles prior to 1957 (est),
including the .303 Ross, and the inspector's ID number who passed that rifle for service. Various parts may have the C broad arrow (Canadian ownership), LB (short for Long Branch factory), CA (for Canadian Arsenals (Long Branch after 1946, or even
others indicating Savage (U.S.) or misc. letters indicating British origin.. Brit and Savage parts sometimes replaced Canadian parts over the years because you never know where it has been. My guess only domestic use as there are no proof marks or import marks visable indicating foreign use. Your rifle is capable of very accurate shooting regardless of how many grooves. My 1958 new barrel is 6 grooved and lug marked but no DCP. Now you can look for a WW2 made rifle as your bolt is 1944
as mentioned. As with all mismatched rifles have the head space checked before shooting. Enjoy. John T.
 
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