Swede M96 Action Strenght

38/96 Swede 'hogwash'?

As for strength of the 96 Swede action: as someone else already stated; there's a lot of 'hear-say' and no actual facts! Fact is: Swedish 'Sandvik Steels' have always had and still have a very high reputation in the world.
The 96/38 Swedes were some of the very first rifles I owned, hunted & experimented with when reloading for it, with no problems whatsoever!
A couple were 6.5's and the last one was a 'commercial' .270 Win.
While working in my own workshop as a NZ-Gunmaker several years ago, I was approached by one of the old local Te Anau 'deer-cullers' from way back, who brought in this well used & 'shot-out' HVA-featherweight rifle and expressed his wish to have it re-brl'ed to either .270 Win. or even better to .338-06? He had no interest in the original cal. as he already owned a couple of rifles for this caliber. He was a bit concerned about the strength of the action tough, because of the very same rumours and asked if I had any suggestions to determine the actual strength of this action?
As his rifle was basically unusable for any hunting work in the present state at the time, I suggested the following: you supply your rifle & supply the ammo and we'll try 'blowing-up' this old & worn .30-06 'commercial' HVA-rifle of yours (not the old 'tie to the tree-method' but from a proper fixed bench-position on the local range) by simmulating ordinary reloading 'overloads' with normal rifle-powders as you could encounter while reloading yourself? He agreed to it! I proceeded the weekend after at the local shooting range: other then locking up the bolt every time, combined with the occasional sign of starting 'melt-down' of the cardtridge base into the bolthead at a couple of occasions; I can't tell I was really succesfull at it! Getting tired of pulling the brl. every time and clean-up the mess; I gave up in the end! No doubt; a charge of pistol/shotgun powder would have been the 'icing on the cake'? No doubt; it would have been for any action, regardless of the manufacture nor the strenth/quality of the action! Mind you; it was unclear to me at the time if the action concerned was a re-worked 'military' or later manufacture 'commercial' action? Still: after this experiment it was save for me to say to the customer that this action could easily withstand the .338-06 pressures or those of the smaller bore, but slighty higher pressure curves of the .270 Win. So; all in all one could say that there's a lot of 'hogwash' floating around surrounding these 96/38 Swedes with no real evidence to back any of these claims! Pitty that I didn't own a digital-camera at the time to back up all of this?
 
In my gunsmithing-career: I have only come across a couple of Swedes & many more 98's (aspecially late WWII-manufacture) wich showed 'minor lug 'set-back'. In actual fact: if one runs his dial-gauge over the inside lug-seats of most modern 'low-end' quality manufactured 'used' rifle-actions for the likes of the Rem. 700's, one could be in for pleasant surprise? Puts all of those claims of better quality worksmanship, improved steel-quality, combined with improved quality-control & machining & heat-treathing processes of modern manufactured rifle-actions straight to rest!
In my opinion: no doubt: the 'custom' Barrel-makers have come a long way from what they once produced: most of the lower end rifle-manufacturers haven't!
 
A recent edition of "Handloader" (an excellent publication for the most part), fed the myth when a well-known commercial gun maker by the name of "Sisk" claimed that an unfired Swede M96 action displayed bolt lug setback on the first firing! Fortunately he mentionned that he sold actions that would not do this, and provided his contact info should you want to purchase from him.

Sisk (and Barnsness) then teamed up and created a completely redundant wildcat (aren't they all?) called the 9.3 SB (I prefer the 9.3 BS). Simply a 350 Rem Mag necked up all the way to 9.3mm (0.366"). Subsequent issues tout it as Messiah of cartidges. What's next, a 312 Win?

All to say that they are still polluted with bias towards their advertizers, so beware.


I thought it was the 9.3 BS, Andy. In any case, unless the action has been abused, it will work for any standard modern cartridge, IMHO. - dan
 
In good condition, a 96 Swede is a strong enough action. Many are damaged when removing/re-installing the barrels. It is common to see Swedes with the receiver ring squashed by an outside wrench. I've also seen them split by an inside wrench. The receiver ring is quite thin on the right hand side. Ithink they are just fine for cartridges in the 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57 class and probably OK for most standard cartridges.
The receivers are often quite hard and setback is unlikely. Unfortunately, a hard receiver is likely to fail in a more spectacular manner if it does fail. Regards, Bill.
 
I have an original matching numbers '96 Gustav. When I was younger, and new to reloading, I was determined to make the thing out perform the 270 Win.
I didn't have a chronograph, I didn't have a scale, what I did with Lee dippers was insane! But the rifle survived, and still shoots 1.5 inch groups (at more sane levels) through it's pitted bore.

I have a lot of respect for that action.
 
The ones who dare are the ones who'll win!

I have an original matching numbers '96 Gustav. When I was younger, and new to reloading, I was determined to make the thing out perform the 270 Win.
I didn't have a chronograph, I didn't have a scale, what I did with Lee dippers was insane! But the rifle survived, and still shoots 1.5 inch groups (at more sane levels) through it's pitted bore.

I have a lot of respect for that action.

Indeed quite a risky business trying loading it up to that level with just a powder-dipper, but still; good on yah mate.
 
How is that working out ? What barrel did you use ? Just curious as I am looking to do the same to mine.

Just need to find someone to do the work. Tradeex has brand new M38 6.5 Barrels for cheap.
I have done a few rifles for myself & a couple of rifles in this cal. for other customers; the cal. is identical to a 6.5X64 Brenneke / 6.5X65 RWS. I should still have this good & near new quality 6.5-06 Reamer and we can do the work for you at Martini & Hagn Gunmakers Ltd.; that is if you can't find someone 'skilled' enough to do a proper job up in your 'neck of the woods'? Just that bit extra on shipping? Let me know, if you're interested?
 
I have never heard of a Swedish M96 chambered in 8x63 Swedish... wonder if the Swedes know a thing or two about the rifle's design limits.
 
Im not sure what pressure 8x63 runs at.

Here is another take I found online:

"Those rifles were originally designed for the 6.5 x 55 round which is
currently spec'd at 3800 bar (55,000psi) and the max statistical individual
round pressure is listed as 4370 bar (63,000 psi). The original military
loading ran at around 46,000 kpsi so the older model rifles might not be a
good idea to use for modern rounds. WWII vintage production would probably
be safe for modern rounds loaded within 55 - 59 kpsi."

No idea what bar is, it seems he is referring to the limits of the cartridge which are not the same as the action.

As far as I know .270 win. is rated up to 65,000 PSI so I would have to guess anything up to there would be safe in a swede. I see Hodgdon Data listing max 6.5-06 Loads at 63,000 PSI right around the same max pressure they publish for .270 win.

I can only deduct that any action strongh enough for .270 win is strong enought for 6.5-06.
 
In responce to Pathfinders question:
Brl was S/S & Fluted "Shilen" Select-Match. Found it an very easy round to reload and in most situations a better performer then the .270 Win.; aspecially 'up-close' shots on 'reds' in the tick NZ-bush! However accuracy, altough' more then sufficient for hunting-purposes, could never compete with the 'top-notch' accuracy of the old 6.5 Swede. In fact; I seriously doubt if any other 6.5 can & I've tried most 6.5's around! just finnished building myself another one on a S/S, cut-rifled, 'gain-twist', 7-12 twist "RKS" brl. in the new 6.5X47 Lap. on a Sako 75: nice shooter sofar, but still experimenting with loads. Also just started another one for my 2 daugthers on a 'trued' M96 action (made '#### on opening') with a 1-9 twist CrMb2 buttoned brl.: no-doubt this will also be a'tack-driver'! Any questions: a/h ph: 1-250-426-3829 Cheers, Jan
 
In responce to Pathfinders question:
Brl was S/S & Fluted "Shilen" Select-Match. Found it an very easy round to reload and in most situations a better performer then the .270 Win.; aspecially 'up-close' shots on 'reds' in the tick NZ-bush! However accuracy, altough' more then sufficient for hunting-purposes, could never compete with the 'top-notch' accuracy of the old 6.5 Swede. In fact; I seriously doubt if any other 6.5 can & I've tried most 6.5's around! just finnished building myself another one on a S/S, cut-rifled, 'gain-twist', 7-12 twist "RKS" brl. in the new 6.5X47 Lap. on a Sako 75: nice shooter sofar, but still experimenting with loads. Also just started another one for my 2 daugthers on a 'trued' M96 action (made '#### on opening') with a 1-9 twist CrMb2 buttoned brl.: no-doubt this will also be a'tack-driver'! Any questions: a/h ph: 1-250-426-3829 Cheers, Jan
*Note; In the case of the above mentioned 6.5-06 Shilen brl: after about a year and a bit, I ended up pulling the brl., because a customer was after the 'blue-printed' Sako L61R action. Ended up using the very same brl. for another clients 'custom' rifle-project I had to build for him & ended up re-chambering it into .260Rem. Shortly after finnishing the project he let me know that he managed to shoot some very nice tight groups out to 1000 yrds! I didn't witness the groups he shot that day; so I'm not going to repeat what the highly excited 'chap' reported to me! I guess I should have experimented a bit more with different loadings?
 
*Note; In the case of the above mentioned 6.5-06 Shilen brl: after about a year and a bit, I ended up pulling the brl., because a customer was after the 'blue-printed' Sako L61R action. Ended up using the very same brl. for another clients 'custom' rifle-project I had to build for him & ended up re-chambering it into .260Rem. Shortly after finnishing the project he let me know that he managed to shoot some very nice tight groups out to 1000 yrds! I didn't witness the groups he shot that day; so I'm not going to repeat what the highly excited 'chap' reported to me! I guess I should have experimented a bit more with different loadings?
As for the beforementioned RKS 'Gain twist' brl > it starts at a 1:7 twist-rate and exits at 1:12! As for the 'buttoned' CrMb2 brl. twist-rate: this is just a 1:9 twist-rate at 20" length for projectiles up to & incl. 130 gr! I guess the max. weight the girls can shoot comfortably?
 
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