Squib X 2

GMJim said:
Well here's my dilema. Been using 3.5 grns. for hundreds of rounds and getting good groups but saying 3.5 is too low doesn't explain why I've not had any issues but suddenly got two squibs. Sooty brass was noticed right away so increasing powder makes good sense. I guess the only logical reason for the squibs is a failure to put enough powder in those two shells? I'm going to load a few rounds and scale each one and see what happens. I've always checked the powder measure against the scale at least every 10 rounds or less but who knows?
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts!
Jim
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Other guys are saying 3 gr TG will push the bullet out and I have no reason to doubt that. I was using "3gr" just as a random powder charge number. I don't use TG so don't know how low you can go.

But if 3gr will work then the next guess is you had very little or zero powder. But recoil felt the same so???

You could experiment by starting at 3.5 gr and continually dropping the charge until you get a stuck bullet if you want to investigate it further but it probably makes more sense to just use a higher charge to increase pressure for chamber sealing and chalk it up to having missed a couple of charges.
 
Maybe not related, but I've been having a hell of a time with Titegroup causing squibs in 45 ACP (like close to a dozen now out of maybe 200-250 rounds fired), although unlike OP they are either very obvious squibs or mistaken for light strikes because they don't even make a noise. I am loading near max load (according to Campro data) and pulled 10% the rounds I had loaded (which is close to 20% of the rounds I have left of that lot) and other than literally a couple being 0.1gr low and 1 round being 0.1gr high, everything was bang on and no clumpy or otherwise bad powder observed in the pulled rounds.

The thought had occurred to me that it was temperature related, as I've read that Titegroup is somewhat temperature sensitive, so the timing of OP's post is interesting. Originally did my ladder test back around September / early October and didn't start having squib issues until the weather started getting pretty cold in late December/January. Or maybe the combination of Ginex primers + Titegroup + low pressure round + cold is a bit too much for it and it's not entirely on the powder, I don't know.

I've stop shooting that lot for now, I plan to test carefully and extensively when the weather warms up a good deal.

Now, having said that, I've been using Titegroup from the same bottle with the same brand of primers for 9mm and not had a single issue in all sorts of weather, almost about 800 rounds into it now. 4.6gr under Campro's 115gr bullet.
 
OP, are you visually checking that every case has powder in it before seating a bullet?
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This. Also think of any failure mode of the powder drop. The time I had a squib was due to powder drop malfunction, and I caught the 2nd round not having powder. Separated that batch and shot very carefully, ended up hitting another squib.

3.5gr TG for 124gr in 9mm is a bit low but I doubt it's what causing you the squib. When you operate on either end of the load data, it's best to chrono your shots. When I was working up a load with 147gr and Titegroup, it only takes 0.2 grain powder difference between consistent 800+fps and velocity randomly between 200~800fps, indicating the bullet barely made out of the barrel. That small of a difference is entirely within the tolerance of powder drop, temperature, or even barrel condition. Both powder charges were entirely within the published load data.
 
Tagged for interest

Yeah i load 3.0 titegroup / 147 gr with my comp light loads in 2 glocks and a walther ppq 9mms ……. No squibs …… yet

The media stuck in primer pocket is a good suggestion and reason to pre tumble rather then post tumble like you would …..lubed rifle brass …… did that with my 204 long ago learning to load and i went through with them anyhow and had no detrimental effect …… with a what ? 28 ish grain powder load in a varmint calibre
 
Because I couldn't trust my last 150 reloads that were left I pulled the lead out of ALL of them. Measured the powder of each one and came up with 3.5 in all of them and primer flash holes are clear. That's two and a half hours of my life that I won't get back but reloading them with extra care will tell the story. I am however going to increase the powder to 3.9 grns and see if my brass stays cleaner. I'll update soon but not planning on a range visit for a week or so.
Jim
 
Gatehouse said:
The recoil felt the same because you probably can't feel the difference between 3.5gr and 3.0 gr but the difference was enough to get the bullet stuck.
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Yup, and most powder droppers can vary charge to charge .5gr from time to time through the process, stuck powder, working it to fast.
My start loads for semi pistols are in the middle of start/max, goes half a gr either way still fine, but that's me, I also always use a powder slow enough that provides a solid visual indication charge is where it should be, my 9mm powders are 6gr+, on the turret press, it's easy to catch one that is a double, or on the other side a half charge.
 
The only time I’ve had a squib was in a 10mm, it went pop! instead of bang. So very noticeable, it cycled the slide to some degree iirc. The bullet was lodged just into the rifling but was visible from the chamber with the slide locked back, easily pushed it out with a plastic cleaning rod.

I’m going to chalk it up to no powder, I’m very careful with checking powder levels in cases after I drop charges in the group and before I seat bullets but things happen and can slip past you.

What I started doing as a final check after loading is done and primers/cases are inspected and I’ve done a plunk test is to weigh them before they’re boxed up. Take a weight off a known good loaded round and weigh the rest individually, you’ll know if there’s any with no powder or double feeds. There will be some discrepancies in weights as brass and bullets won’t all be identical but it will be damn close.
 
How do your reloads compare to factory ammo as far as recoil goes?
I use power pistol to load 9mm and i think I use 6 grains of it and my loads feel like they have more "oomph" then the factory Remington bucket ammo i have
 
***EDIT*** I misunderstood Deathrawt, my bad.

The OP's squib was 100% NOT caused by his 3.5gr load of Titegroup. This isn't my video, but it might help people interested in this topic understand just how little powder is actually required for a bullet to exit the barrel of a pistol. I understand that there are many factors involved, and that this video doesn't cover them all, but clearly the OP's load is not the problem. Something else went wrong.

 
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I'm loading 115gr campros
I mentioned the comparison of felt recoil for the OP so if he stated that his reloads had less recoil then factory rounds then maybe he is not using quite enough powder which caused his two squibs?
My power pistol loads work perfect for me and are twice as accurate as the Rem bucket ammo that I have
I don't have a chrono so can't say how fast they are going
I also have tightgroup powder but have not tried it in 9mm yet
Prob won't until my power pistol is used up
 
The "take" from the video posted by 4n2t0, is that the 2 squib loads the OP encountered had no powder in them.
 
Some people have wondered if media could have got in the flash hole. I pinched a bit of walnut media into 2 357 cases then loaded powder and seated a bullet. Rounds are stored vertical and I will try them tomorrow. Only 2 rounds so not very comprehensive test but lets see...

https://imgur.com/fP493DH
 
Gatehouse said:
Some people have wondered if media could have got in the flash hole. I pinched a bit of walnut media into 2 357 cases then loaded powder and seated a bullet. Rounds are stored vertical and I will try them tomorrow. Only 2 rounds so not very comprehensive test but lets see...
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Very cool, I love stuff like this, super useful/helpful. I can't wait to see what happens. My guess is that the rounds will work. Now, wether you feel a diminished recoil force will be interesting.
 
I have made it a habit to check all powder loads by looking down into the cases with a flashlight before pressing on the bullets. Sure it wont really show if powder load is or isn't correct other than level of powder in case but it definitely shows me if I have an empty case before bullets are seated.
Cheers
 
Wizebuck said:
I have made it a habit to check all powder loads by looking down into the cases with a flashlight before pressing on the bullets. Sure it wont really show if powder load is or isn't correct other than level of powder in case but it definitely shows me if I have an empty case before bullets are seated.
Cheers
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Same here. I have a magnetic led light stuck to my press that shines down into the next stage after the powder drop. I wont be able to see a .1g difference but would see an empty case or a double charge.
 
Gatehouse said:
I would agree...except the OP said the recoil was the same.
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And that can't be...the more this thread is hashed the more questionable the premiss.

Recoil is generated by two things, and both are absent in the Op's description. Recoil is a product of bullet acceleration....the slug stayed in the lands in this case...and secondly, jet propulsion of the gases at the bore when the bullet excits....the gas & pressure just stays motionless in its chamber until the slug moves and the gun action cannot cycle until there is enough pressure to move the bullet....nothing adds up to the physics properties needed.
 
Gatehouse said:
Some people have wondered if media could have got in the flash hole. I pinched a bit of walnut media into 2 357 cases then loaded powder and seated a bullet. Rounds are stored vertical and I will try them tomorrow. Only 2 rounds so not very comprehensive test but lets see...

https://imgur.com/fP493DH
Click to expand...


My conclusion is that media stick in a flash hole prevents ignition is a myth. :)
 
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