Alberta to allow 22 centrefire for big game.

[fingers284]

The swamp aspect might be a factor but a bigger one is they have no snow to paw through for supper. Horses that are fed hay all winter need their toe nails trimmed, range horses that paw all winter will have nice shaped hooves in the spring.

 

[Scott_N]

I'd consider using my 22-250 with appropriate bullets on pronghorn and mulies / whitetails.

 

[scruffee]

I've never understood the attraction of shooting more with less when it comes to hunting...

Don't get me wrong, there are guys with relatively small calibers out there that are very effective. I'm not worried about those guys, but I do worry about rando people who will just get the smallest possible caliber "just cuz" and who have absolutely no idea what they're doing, punching tiny holes through game that will never be recovered.

 

[KodiakHntr]

Could say the same about the guys running around with the 338 RUM’s they bought 15 years ago and still carrying the original box of shells they picked up with it, cause biggerer is betterer….

 

[savagefan]

if life made sense we'd all hunt with .308.

 

[scruffee]

Could say the same about the guys running around with the 338 RUM’s they bought 15 years ago and still carrying the original box of shells they picked up with it, cause biggerer is betterer….

Both things can be true at once.

Too many idiots roam free and armed during hunting season.

 

[blakeyboy]

I've never understood the attraction of shooting more with less when it comes to hunting...

Don't get me wrong, there are guys with relatively small calibers out there that are very effective. I'm not worried about those guys, but I do worry about rando people who will just get the smallest possible caliber "just cuz" and who have absolutely no idea what they're doing, punching tiny holes through game that will never be recovered.

anyone curious should just give it a shot(pun intended), until then they won't understand

bullet matters, nothing else, shot lots with .270 and .270 wsm with 140 accubonds then went to a 6.5 Grendel with 123 gr eld-m....break out the knife and guess which cartridge did what and you'd get it wrong every time, try to imagine for a second looking over a tiny grendel in your hand only burning 30 gr of powder and either 270 in your hand over top the carnage of dead critter internals with half to less than half the horsepower and you start to connect the dots on this, do more work where it counts, bullet does the work, the hp required drops to fractions of what the 20th century is used to, if you wish, but the big thing this allows is for people to do the absolute number 1 thing required in filling a tag and that's hit them where you want to hit them

gimme new 10 guys with new .22 arc 88 gr eld'm's vs 10 guys with 338 rum's they've had for 15 years and will see who's freezers fill up first, assuming everyone can get on game equally, this isn't a 'better hunter' conversation, hypothetical, the newbs with pea shooters will not be scared of their guns and have bad habits develop, they will be as likely or more to place it well than anyone running 'magnum' on their head stamp regardless, all guides seem to confirm, more rodeos happen not from the guys with 'not enough gun' but the guys showing up with 'too much gun' (specifically magnums, the higher hp you go up, worse it gets)

the other thing about this is the newbs running the 88gr eld'm's will walk right up to everything they shoot at lol vs even the ones that do happen to get hit where wanted with the rum's assuming delayed controlled expansion 20th century marketing bullets 100 yard runners,

so question is do we want newbs with pea shooters with good heavy for cal rapid expansion high bc/sd bullets or newbs with magnums????? lmao

try to wrap head around this one and only thing....bullet does the work, most important thing behind placing the bullet, aaaaaand THAT'S THE GAME!

LESS IS MORE! LOL

 

[ACandian]

I used my Tikka T3x lite .223 to take a black-Tail buck last year. I used a Hornady Frontier 55grain SP and put it behind the shoulder at ~80 yards and got a complete pass through taking out both lungs. Buck ran 50 yards.

 

[blakeyboy]

I used my Tikka T3x lite .223 to take a black-Tail buck last year. I used a Hornady Frontier 55grain SP and put it behind the shoulder at ~80 yards and got a complete pass through taking out both lungs. Buck ran 50 yards.

there are guys running fast twist .223 with 77gr tmk flattening elk to 400 and every other na big game animal and been doing so for many many years now if you haven't seen that famous thread documenting all of it over on rokslide, I'm sure you'll run into the link one day, takes anything 55 gr .223 to an entirely different level in terms of size of game and speed to death, it's been so deadly and popular the combo is called the rokslide special, a tikka .223 and generally a swfa fixed 6x mil in sports match rings as bombproof retain zero, watch it happen, and the ultimate high volume long barrel life trainer but also killer as a primary if you want, there's an entire cult and culture built around this and they've killed so many of everything with it you cannot ignore once you get through the hundreds of pages of proof documented

 

[rifleman762]

To the naysayers: is a 90gr .243" appropriate for deer while an 88gr .224" is no good for the task? I have killed a pile of mule deer does with my 22 Creedmoor shooting an 88gr ELD-M at 3200 fps. It's quite nice being able to watch the bullet hit the animal. I did this in Alberta over the last few years even before 22 Creedmoor became a factory cartridge. With cases that were headstamped 6mm Creedmoor. Cry about it if you want :-D. They died just as fast as blasting them with my 300WM shooting 200gr ELD-X at 2950.

My wife and I have both killed deer with her 243 Win, as well. 90gr Accubond on a broadside lung shot and the mule deer doe barely reacted until it's blood ran out. 100gr Hornady BTSP through a whitetail buck's lungs and the thing dropped and flopped.

So I also became a believer in fast expanding bullets for deer. With enough bullet length and mass to allow for some fragmentation. Fragments = tissue damage = fast death.

A dummy can buy 55gr VMax in a 243 or a dummy can buy 55gr Vmax in a 22-250 or 223. Or a smart man can buy/load 90-100gr 243 Win and 88gr 22 Creedmoor or 22 ARC.

I would totally support a minimum bullet weight for big game hunting but a minimum bullet diameter was silly.

 

[skneub]

personally I figure this change was giving the finger to the feds....

 

[KodiakHntr]

Not Alberta, but another bull tipped over to an 88 ELD m and a 22 centerfire tonight…seemed to work just fine on a 6x6 at 101 yards from a 22 Creed at 3200fps muzzle velocity.

 

[Duramax6.6]

Berger bullets are simply varmint bullets in different diameters. They all go in 2-3” and shrapnel the vital organs. So 22 center fire ammo with a lead or plastic point of 55 grains and up should work fine and no recoil flinches.

As my choice I’d stick with the old Hornady GMX or Barnes TTSX bullets in my .223 or 22-250 because I’ve had great performance from those little copper blades propellering (not a word I know) through blood rich vitals.

Ever seen a propeller from an open ocean cigarette racing boat? Lamborghini twin engine boats have roughly 6” diameter propeller blades that lift the nose out of the water because they spin at unbelievable rpms. Rifle bullets hit at over 100,000 rpm, physics, the science works

PS: f¥ck Fauci and the rest of them!

 

[blakeyboy]

Grenading is much more effective then propellering.

Spell check is unhappy with both of those words lol.

We’re swimming these bullets but not across oceans, across little wee rib cages. Give me the stick of dynamite please, don’t need to propeller the dirt behind the animals.

 

[blakeyboy]

To the naysayers: is a 90gr .243" appropriate for deer while an 88gr .224" is no good for the task? I have killed a pile of mule deer does with my 22 Creedmoor shooting an 88gr ELD-M at 3200 fps. It's quite nice being able to watch the bullet hit the animal. I did this in Alberta over the last few years even before 22 Creedmoor became a factory cartridge. With cases that were headstamped 6mm Creedmoor. Cry about it if you want :-D. They died just as fast as blasting them with my 300WM shooting 200gr ELD-X at 2950.

My wife and I have both killed deer with her 243 Win, as well. 90gr Accubond on a broadside lung shot and the mule deer doe barely reacted until it's blood ran out. 100gr Hornady BTSP through a whitetail buck's lungs and the thing dropped and flopped.

So I also became a believer in fast expanding bullets for deer. With enough bullet length and mass to allow for some fragmentation. Fragments = tissue damage = fast death.

A dummy can buy 55gr VMax in a 243 or a dummy can buy 55gr Vmax in a 22-250 or 223. Or a smart man can buy/load 90-100gr 243 Win and 88gr 22 Creedmoor or 22 ARC.

I would totally support a minimum bullet weight for big game hunting but a minimum bullet diameter was silly.

I like your moves, if we ever get so dumb to get to copper bullets only rules for hunting my eldm’s will ride in cx boxes lol. Did you just request your barrel not be ‘labeled’?

Man it takes a long time for Alberta to get up to speed.

 

[blakeyboy]

The old phrase ‘use enough gun’ seems silly now that we know what we didn’t know, from way back in the 20th century.

The new phrase now that we know is...

‘Use Enough Bullet’

 

[blakeyboy]

Hmm; 22 centerfires for big game. I’ve done more than a little off that, mosstly with 22/250 and Middlestead. I have mixed feelings to be honest. If you are the kind of guy who’s been popping gophers all summer with one, I won’t tell you that you can’t get your deer with one. There’s worse choices for sure. If they are that bad we should take a suspicious look at muzzleloaders and archery would be a non-starter. Sure they work. With a lot of trigger disipline so will a 22 LR.

On the other hand what do you possibly have to gain by pushing the limits? The carcass doesn’t grow, the meat isn’t sweeter and nobody adds 20 inches to the score. The potential for bragging rights is pretty meager, hell if you think you can do it you’re probably right. Until you’re not.

Any of that with fast twist heavy for cal 75-90 gr?

Or what I’m really asking is, any of that with sd .25 or higher with rapid expansion type bullets?

As that’s what you are looking for to make the penetration depths for ‘big game’ as ‘not marginal’ for front half shooting. It’s a formula here that works, not the headstamp or the bullet diameter.

The ole ~40-60gr stuff ‘not marginal’ for coyotes, wolves, maybe fawns & antelope but would tend to create some ‘neck shooters’ from ‘experiences’ of being ‘marginal’ for bigger classes of game.

Gotta still make it far enough into game to be ‘not marginal’. The only way to do that with rapid expansion bullets is be higher than the 20th century norms on sd which we compensated for back then by making tougher bullets so they held together to make it deep enough, but at the expense of being able to ‘grenade’ well.

When we get all that figured out the partition success makes a lot of sense. Retain sd to get adequate penetration from one half of bullet, and grenade on the other half for the faster kill. But now we simply add more sd with these longer heavier for cal bullets that we don’t need a partition.

The wins on this formula are not just in terminal performance but you end up with much higher bc which lets you burn lots less powder while increasing hit probability due to less recoil but also less drop and wind drift.

 

[blakeyboy]

"I switched from using 150gr TTSX's from a favorite 280AI as my primary moose rifle to the 88 ELD m in a matching rifle purely because I was getting more damage to organs from the 88, and stuff was dying faster and covering less ground. In fact after using the first one, I have had 3 more rifles built specifically around the 88 ELD m for myself and a buddy, and all are primarily used as killing rifles."

I find this very interesting. thanks for sharing. What cal did you say you were using for the 88eldm? I think I missed it.
Lots of guys in the states are really enjoying the 22 CM and saying basically same as most on here.

Ive seen a ton of guys with piss poor shots from 7-300mags do a bunch of chasing due to horrible shots weather its skill or recoil.

Repost from page 4 because .

The proof is endless from guys who try this themselves. There’s a formula for our big game stuff that is very drt and it has nothing to do with headstamp or diameter. High sd, (.25 or higher), cup core rapid expansion type construction and it works drt even launched slow af little 16” Grendel at under 2400 fps muzzle velocity up to these laser beam 22 creed speeds.

 

[Dogleg]

Any of that with fast twist heavy for cal 75-90 gr?

Or what I’m really asking is, any of that with sd .25 or higher with rapid expansion type bullets?

As that’s what you are looking for to make the penetration depths for ‘big game’ as ‘not marginal’ for front half shooting. It’s a formula here that works, not the headstamp or the bullet diameter.

The ole ~40-60gr stuff ‘not marginal’ for coyotes, wolves, maybe fawns & antelope but would tend to create some ‘neck shooters’ from ‘experiences’ of being ‘marginal’ for bigger classes of game.

Gotta still make it far enough into game to be ‘not marginal’. The only way to do that with rapid expansion bullets is be higher than the 20th century norms on sd which we compensated for back then by making tougher bullets so they held together to make it deep enough, but at the expense of being able to ‘grenade’ well.

When we get all that figured out the partition success makes a lot of sense. Retain sd to get adequate penetration from one half of bullet, and grenade on the other half for the faster kill. But now we simply add more sd with these longer heavier for cal bullets that we don’t need a partition.

The wins on this formula are not just in terminal performance but you end up with much higher bc which lets you burn lots less powder while increasing hit probability due to less recoil but also less drop and wind drift.

For heavies I mostly used 75 old Hornady BTHP match that I pretty sure they don’t make anymore. The middlesteds and straight 22/243 I use 80 gr Berger VLDs.
I’ve had good results with close range and carefull shot placement. A high percentage of instant drops; and a bit of a pattern of animals hit, acting confused then laying down and dieing.
Although I’ve done it, partly to see if I could I guess.(probably the worst reason) I honestly don’t see the point. I have exactly nothing to gain.
You know what works better than a small fast and fast opening bullet? A bigger fast, fast opening bullet.

 

[brass$pitter]

what's the thought process on this for the change?