Loading on the low end for PRS - 6.5 CM

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gorby

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Greetings!

Just looking for some thoughts on reloading on the low end for PRS. I have heard that it can be easier to see splash and spot misses. I have always loaded the higher end to minimize drop and drift... but thinking spotting misses may be more a priority. I shoot 6.5CM 140g and use H350.

Any thoughts on this?
 
Well I don’t know a ton about PRS but…
I have followed the sport for a bit.
I think the answer is making your rifle heavier, when 6.5 was popular in competition there was heavy rigs on the line, muzzle velocities still stayed at 2700-2800

Now everyone uses 6 dasher in a 23 lb rifle, must be for a reason, right?

Long term if you are competing probably re barrel to a 6mm something
 
Redneck Hippy said:
Well I don’t know a ton about PRS but…
I have followed the sport for a bit.
I think the answer is making your rifle heavier, when 6.5 was popular in competition there was heavy rigs on the line, muzzle velocities still stayed at 2700-2800

Now everyone uses 6 dasher in a 23 lb rifle, must be for a reason, right?

Long term if you are competing probably re barrel to a 6mm something
Click to expand...

Weight is your friend! My rifle is already pretty heavy in a chassis with weights and I just order more. It currently balences about an inch ahead of the magwell and I am hoping to get it an inch forward of that.

I shoot 6.5CM as I did not have the cash to go with a custom barrel right off the bat - have the heavy barreled Howa 1500 which is a relativelycheap way to get into PRS. When I rebarrel, I will go with a 6mm of some type.
 
gorby said:
Greetings!

Just looking for some thoughts on reloading on the low end for PRS. I have heard that it can be easier to see splash and spot misses. I have always loaded the higher end to minimize drop and drift... but thinking spotting misses may be more a priority. I shoot 6.5CM 140g and use H350.

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

When I was considering a build for PRS type games I listened to a pod cast from a couple of the top US PRS shooters.

From memory one had moved from 6BR (great cartridge but on the low end of the 6mm speed spectrum) to 6CM (high end of the 6mm speed spectrum). He started to explain that he was moving back to 6BR (or maybe 6BRA - cant remember).

These were sponsored shooters who could use anything they wanted so why would they do that (more speed is better - right?), they made two very good points.

First point was trace. He said that when he went to the faster 6CM he found it much harder to see trace which for him was invaluable. He said that the trace sweet spot was around 2850 so 6BR etc were the better fit.

The second point was around seating depth. He said that each setup has a sweet spot or window for jump and with 6CM he found that with the high rate of fire and overbore cartridge even if he started on the low end of jump (ie rifle liked to run at 20 - 40 thou jump for best accuracy) he would burn so much barrel over the course of the match that it was beyond the upper limit for jump by the end and accuracy was suffering as a result so he was going back to something less aggressive that could last the match with optimal accuracy.
 
Sniffer said:
When I was considering a build for PRS type games I listened to a pod cast from a couple of the top US PRS shooters.

From memory one had moved from 6BR (great cartridge but on the low end of the 6mm speed spectrum) to 6CM (high end of the 6mm speed spectrum). He started to explain that he was moving back to 6BR (or maybe 6BRA - cant remember).

These were sponsored shooters who could use anything they wanted so why would they do that (more speed is better - right?), they made two very good points.

First point was trace. He said that when he went to the faster 6CM he found it much harder to see trace which for him was invaluable. He said that the trace sweet spot was around 2850 so 6BR etc were the better fit.

The second point was around seating depth. He said that each setup has a sweet spot or window for jump and with 6CM he found that with the high rate of fire and overbore cartridge even if he started on the low end of jump (ie rifle liked to run at 20 - 40 thou jump for best accuracy) he would burn so much barrel over the course of the match that it was beyond the upper limit for jump by the end and accuracy was suffering as a result so he was going back to something less aggressive that could last the match with optimal accuracy.
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Appreciate that feedback. I also need to adjust my seating depth as my magazine does not feed rounds well - though the seating depth after I set using the Hornady gauge has really helped accuracy as well. I forget the exact numbers off hand.
 
6's, 25's and 6.5's are all in the top 20 ranked shooters for PRS. The cartridge isn't going to make you magic. Technique will help you self spot. I can self spot my 6.5 CM for my NRL Hunter rifle, sub 12 lbs.
 
D_Ghost said:
6's, 25's and 6.5's are all in the top 20 ranked shooters for PRS. The cartridge isn't going to make you magic. Technique will help you self spot. I can self spot my 6.5 CM for my NRL Hunter rifle, sub 12 lbs.
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Totally agree. Just working up a new load and wondering about tweaking it in another direction. Not going to switch cartridge until I have shot this barrel out!
 
gorby said:
Appreciate that feedback. I also need to adjust my seating depth as my magazine does not feed rounds well - though the seating depth after I set using the Hornady gauge has really helped accuracy as well. I forget the exact numbers off hand.
Click to expand...

Personally I tune seating depth for accuracy.

If the gun isn't feeding well there are other factors I would look at but seating depth would remain constant.

When I first build my 6BR the feeding was not perfect but MDT sent updated magazine followers and springs which fixed the issue completely.
 
gorby said:
Greetings!

Just looking for some thoughts on reloading on the low end for PRS. I have heard that it can be easier to see splash and spot misses. I have always loaded the higher end to minimize drop and drift... but thinking spotting misses may be more a priority. I shoot 6.5CM 140g and use H350.

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
In a 6.5 creed, a heavier slower bullet is your friend. 147, 153.5, 156gr bullets at 2600-2700fps. That big big bullet moving at moderately slower speeds makes seeing trace much easier, as well as splash much easier, faster recovery time to see both.

This years prs season winner was using a slower moving 6.5 creed with 156gr bullet, and second place at the irpf world championship was taken with a 6.5 creed and a 153gr.

Generally a bra, br or dasher with a 105, 109 gr bullet moving 2750-2900 is most common, 25 cal with 133-135gr bullets going 2700-2850, and 6.5 with 140-156 going 2650-2800. Trying to keep in these speeds keeps recoil down, visibility up. You can get more out of a lot of cartridges but it can change recoil impulse as well as recovery time much harder for spotting trace and splash
 
RX5o said:
In a 6.5 creed, a heavier slower bullet is your friend. 147, 153.5, 156gr bullets at 2600-2700fps. That big big bullet moving at moderately slower speeds makes seeing trace much easier, as well as splash much easier, faster recovery time to see both.

This years prs season winner was using a slower moving 6.5 creed with 156gr bullet, and second place at the irpf world championship was taken with a 6.5 creed and a 153gr.

Generally a bra, br or dasher with a 105, 109 gr bullet moving 2750-2900 is most common, 25 cal with 133-135gr bullets going 2700-2850, and 6.5 with 140-156 going 2650-2800. Trying to keep in these speeds keeps recoil down, visibility up. You can get more out of a lot of cartridges but it can change recoil impulse as well as recovery time much harder for spotting trace and splash
Click to expand...

I was wondering about a heavier bullet as well and what effect it would have. I may try and tweak that after I have shot all my 140s.
 
RX5o said:
In a 6.5 creed, a heavier slower bullet is your friend. 147, 153.5, 156gr bullets at 2600-2700fps. That big big bullet moving at moderately slower speeds makes seeing trace much easier, as well as splash much easier, faster recovery time to see both.

This years prs season winner was using a slower moving 6.5 creed with 156gr bullet, and second place at the irpf world championship was taken with a 6.5 creed and a 153gr.

Generally a bra, br or dasher with a 105, 109 gr bullet moving 2750-2900 is most common, 25 cal with 133-135gr bullets going 2700-2850, and 6.5 with 140-156 going 2650-2800. Trying to keep in these speeds keeps recoil down, visibility up. You can get more out of a lot of cartridges but it can change recoil impulse as well as recovery time much harder for spotting trace and splash
Click to expand...

This makes sense. Bigger heavier bullet has to displace more air / causes more disturbance as it moves as well as going slower so should be easier to see

I have always found my 6.5CM much easier to see trace on.
 
There's a website 'precision rifle blog' that has all the data anyone has ever compiled regarding how popular are various equipment choices at the top end of the PRS game.

Personally, my main reason for loading slower ammo is to prolong barrel life and more rounds of stability between cleaning. I run 80 fps slower than most people.
 
gorby said:
Greetings!

Just looking for some thoughts on reloading on the low end for PRS. I have heard that it can be easier to see splash and spot misses. I have always loaded the higher end to minimize drop and drift... but thinking spotting misses may be more a priority. I shoot 6.5CM 140g and use H350.

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
I'm running 2727fps with my 6.5CM.

136gr Scenar L
43.1gr N555
Federal 205 GMM SRP
Lapua SRP brass
 
Sniffer said:
This makes sense. Bigger heavier bullet has to displace more air / causes more disturbance as it moves as well as going slower so should be easier to see

I have always found my 6.5CM much easier to see trace on.
Click to expand...
You speed that creed up and will loose the ability to recover fast enough to see trace on those medium distances or very uncomfortable positions.

I shoot 6 and 25’s and the 25’s moving at moderate speeds are easier to see trace as well as splash, but those little 6’s are darn sweet to shoot
 
RX5o said:
You speed that creed up and will loose the ability to recover fast enough to see trace on those medium distances or very uncomfortable positions.

I shoot 6 and 25’s and the 25’s moving at moderate speeds are easier to see trace as well as splash, but those little 6’s are darn sweet to shoot
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My 6.5CM ran best at 2650 (ran at that for the entire first barrel) and it was always the easiest rifle to see trace with (and I only shot 140gr).

My 6BR is easily the most accurate rifle I own and in a heavy chassis it's like shooting a potato gun.
 
adamg said:
There's a website 'precision rifle blog' that has all the data anyone has ever compiled regarding how popular are various equipment choices at the top end of the PRS game.

Personally, my main reason for loading slower ammo is to prolong barrel life and more rounds of stability between cleaning. I run 80 fps slower than most people.
Click to expand...

Yup, I am on the same page.

I have always found that the closer you get to the upper edge of speed the more "fussy" the rifle gets. Better to stay in the lower node.
 
adamg said:
There's a website 'precision rifle blog' that has all the data anyone has ever compiled regarding how popular are various equipment choices at the top end of the PRS game.

Personally, my main reason for loading slower ammo is to prolong barrel life and more rounds of stability between cleaning. I run 80 fps slower than most people.
Click to expand...
The blog is a nice place to see trends.

Same speed thing for me. I run my 6GT at 2775 even though the original idea for that cartridge was much faster. 2775 for me is super accurate, easier to see trace, and better for barrel life. With MDT mags, feeding is flawless.
 
PRS is definitely a game of being able to spot your shots. Hence the reason lots of guys run heavy guns and lighter recoiling cartridges.

While you can push the limits on speed to reduce drop and wind drift, it comes at a cost of recoil and not being able to see and effectively correct for your next shot. Pushing the limits on speed can also lead to being close to pressure limits. Which is not a good thing in a field type scenario. You want a load that will run flawlessly in any condition (heat, cold, wet, dry, rainy, dusty, etc.)

I typically find my PRS load by finding pressure in ideal conditions and then dialing my load back by 2 whole grains of powder. I’ll also test that load by spritzing my cartridges with water before firing them at the range.

Hope this helps. If you have any more questions about PRS feel free to Direct message me.
 
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