Thompson Center Hawken followed me home
- Thread starter new
- Start date
Painkillers
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Love em. Sourcing Goex at a reasonable ask is damn near impossible these days though. I survived the great percussion cap shortage of '16, then the Goex explosion of '21 and subsequent black powder shortage...a pound of powder is what, $100 now? When you can find it? I don't mean to rain on your parade, but it's been tough lately.
- Location
- Delta B.C.
Call Peter at Rusty Wood Trading. Cheers
You’re a bad influence
yes both 50 cal
Chances are, rifling pitch(twist) for both TC's will be 1:48". A compromise pitch, which will shoot both bullet and ball, reasonably well. If you haven't already, it might be a good idea to check .
Personally, I prefer 2F in .50 caliber muzzle loaders. But, if you already have a supply of 3F, it works well, too. Your Hawken will soon tell you what it likes. By the way, if you can get your hands on some Swiss powder, either: 2F or 3F, this stuff out performs Goex.
Saboted bullets also produce good results. With cast, .44 cal /310 grain bullets(Lee mold) offering similar accuracy to the full diameter 320 grain Lee conical. Around 90 grains of 2F powder seems to be the sweet spot(at least for me), for this combination.
Cast, 44/ 240 grain bullets also perform well. As do their jacketed counterparts. Especially for hunting.
If memory serves, most of these TC rifles topped out at around 110 grains maximum powder charge. Not an issue for your expected usage but, still worth mentioning.
As already noted, around 80 grains works well, for ball. Still, every rifle is a world of it's own, so some experimentation with loads may be necessary.
For example: Some years back, a patched ball over 65 grain charge of 3F Goex proved a winner for a pal and mine and his carbine, on a nice Saskatchewan white tailed buck.
Buck was facing us, at around 50 meters. The ball struck pretty much dead center of the deer's chest. Exited just back of the rib cage, leaving a nickle-sized exit wound. Didn't touch the deer's paunch, at all. Buck went about 20 meters and toppled over, stone dead.
Demonstrating that heavy powder charges aren't always necessary, when black powder hunting. With a light light load, keen eye and steady hand on the rifle, being equally the key to success.
This is a nice, soft recoiling load which makes a good choice for target shooting, too. Especially for youngsters.
TC made some fine bp firearms. I purchased my .50 Renegade in the mid-1970's. It still sees regular use and continues to serve as a reliable performer on deer and other game. Also, with .56 caliber smooth bore barrel mounted, a great combination for bunnies and other small game.
I expect your Hawken will perform equally well.
It's 'purty, too.
Enjoy!
Al
Personally, I prefer 2F in .50 caliber muzzle loaders. But, if you already have a supply of 3F, it works well, too. Your Hawken will soon tell you what it likes. By the way, if you can get your hands on some Swiss powder, either: 2F or 3F, this stuff out performs Goex.
Saboted bullets also produce good results. With cast, .44 cal /310 grain bullets(Lee mold) offering similar accuracy to the full diameter 320 grain Lee conical. Around 90 grains of 2F powder seems to be the sweet spot(at least for me), for this combination.
Cast, 44/ 240 grain bullets also perform well. As do their jacketed counterparts. Especially for hunting.
If memory serves, most of these TC rifles topped out at around 110 grains maximum powder charge. Not an issue for your expected usage but, still worth mentioning.
As already noted, around 80 grains works well, for ball. Still, every rifle is a world of it's own, so some experimentation with loads may be necessary.
For example: Some years back, a patched ball over 65 grain charge of 3F Goex proved a winner for a pal and mine and his carbine, on a nice Saskatchewan white tailed buck.
Buck was facing us, at around 50 meters. The ball struck pretty much dead center of the deer's chest. Exited just back of the rib cage, leaving a nickle-sized exit wound. Didn't touch the deer's paunch, at all. Buck went about 20 meters and toppled over, stone dead.
Demonstrating that heavy powder charges aren't always necessary, when black powder hunting. With a light light load, keen eye and steady hand on the rifle, being equally the key to success.
This is a nice, soft recoiling load which makes a good choice for target shooting, too. Especially for youngsters.
TC made some fine bp firearms. I purchased my .50 Renegade in the mid-1970's. It still sees regular use and continues to serve as a reliable performer on deer and other game. Also, with .56 caliber smooth bore barrel mounted, a great combination for bunnies and other small game.
I expect your Hawken will perform equally well.
It's 'purty, too.
Enjoy!
Al
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It’s actually a “Penn Hunter Carbine” can’t find much info on it other than it’s a little prettier.
- Location
- near Yorkton SK
gotta love them 
Thank you for the wealth of knowledge! What can you tell me about 777 powder? Saw it the other day in the city but know nothing about it.
I have used 777 3fg. Loose powder in my inline muzzleloaders with excellent results…it is not as hydroscopic as true goex or Swiss black powder but you still have to clean thoroughly.if 3fg black is hard to find I would use it in my percussion hammer guns and save true black powder for my flintlocks.
Thank you for the great info!
New: as cdnrokon notes, 777 powder works well in inline muzzleloaders. But, not so much in 'traditional' designed muzzle loaders, such as your TC.
Note: It's not the fault of the TC. These are finely made rifles. The problem lies in the design of the ignition system so often seen in this type of rifle.. Which in many cases, were simply reproductions of 19th century percussion rifles based on a modification of the earlier, flintlock ignition system. With a crude percussion drum and nipple design, often bolted on in place of the flintlock's priming pan.
A poor compromise, at best. With a lot of problems arising from the sharp right angle in the percussion ignition channel.
With black powder formulations like Goex, Swiss, Old Eynesford, for example, this isn't a problem. As their ignition threshold is low. So, very easy to ignite. With often a single small spark sufficient to set off the main powder charge.
Not so much, with bp substitute powders, like: Pyrodex, 777, APP and others. These require more ignition force and temperature to ignite. In an inline ignition system, this isn't a problem, as the jet of fire from the percussion cap directly enters the breech. So, ignition is fast and positive.
As already mentioned though, the dogleg design of the TC(and other similar muzzle loaders), acts as a partial obstruction to the flame jet. With often only part of the ignition flame actually making it to the powder charge. As a result: ignition can be unreliable. With failure to fire the usual result. Frustrating at best, at a range session. Potentially disastrous, in a hunting scenario.
To answer your question: Will 777 work in your TC?
Yes.....it will. Sort of. But....be prepared for ragged or unreliable results.
My advice is simple: Stick with 'real' black powder, like Goex, Swiss, etc. These powders were designed with 'traditional' muzzleloading rifles like your TC in mind. This will save you a lot of frustration, despite the cost and potential scarcity.
Hope this helps.
Al
Note: It's not the fault of the TC. These are finely made rifles. The problem lies in the design of the ignition system so often seen in this type of rifle.. Which in many cases, were simply reproductions of 19th century percussion rifles based on a modification of the earlier, flintlock ignition system. With a crude percussion drum and nipple design, often bolted on in place of the flintlock's priming pan.
A poor compromise, at best. With a lot of problems arising from the sharp right angle in the percussion ignition channel.
With black powder formulations like Goex, Swiss, Old Eynesford, for example, this isn't a problem. As their ignition threshold is low. So, very easy to ignite. With often a single small spark sufficient to set off the main powder charge.
Not so much, with bp substitute powders, like: Pyrodex, 777, APP and others. These require more ignition force and temperature to ignite. In an inline ignition system, this isn't a problem, as the jet of fire from the percussion cap directly enters the breech. So, ignition is fast and positive.
As already mentioned though, the dogleg design of the TC(and other similar muzzle loaders), acts as a partial obstruction to the flame jet. With often only part of the ignition flame actually making it to the powder charge. As a result: ignition can be unreliable. With failure to fire the usual result. Frustrating at best, at a range session. Potentially disastrous, in a hunting scenario.
To answer your question: Will 777 work in your TC?
Yes.....it will. Sort of. But....be prepared for ragged or unreliable results.
My advice is simple: Stick with 'real' black powder, like Goex, Swiss, etc. These powders were designed with 'traditional' muzzleloading rifles like your TC in mind. This will save you a lot of frustration, despite the cost and potential scarcity.
Hope this helps.
Al
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