What is a Cooper scout / Gunsite Ranch rifle?
- Thread starter Big Bad
- Start date
If you use a 1x scope (1x = zero magnification) with both eyes open, the only part of your vision that is obscured is the actual black ring of the scope body. You will see your front sight, you will see everything around you. Assuming you are shooting right handed, your left eye may also pick up on the left side of the scope but because your right eye is looking through the scope the image will be transparent.
Correct it weighs another 11 ounces or so. But it's also a superior aiming device. And that's all scopes are, really- an aiming device. Up close the 1X (especially with the red dot reticle) is very fast, faster than irons as you are only using one point to aim. Certainly faster than any of the scopes you listed. Cooper wants to hit a man size target at 500 yards and while a 2.5/4x scope will certainly do that, he also wants to be able to kill a deer and at 400 yards a 6x scope offers a much better opportunity to ethically put a bullet in the kill zone than a lower power scope- especially if you are using a LPVO with some type of ballistic reticle that helps you compensate for bullet drop an wind deflection. Let's face it- most of us use our scout rifles a a bush gun/hunting rifle/truck gun and not too many are using them as a real scout on a combat mission.
Frankly what I love about my Scout rifle is it's compact size more than it's weight. If I wanted it to be ultra light I wouldn't have swapped the factory injection molded stock for a Macmillan stock, which added a few ounces. Due to it's compactness it handles like a much lighter rifle.
Lots of hunting (Scout?) gear is much lighter today than in 1983. Perhaps Cooper would have recognized that since you shaved 10 pounds off your backpack and hunting gear, adding a few ounces of superior optics on your rifle wasn't a really big deal.
That's exactly what I have been saying. I think it's likely he would indeed have looked at the newer gear and said "hey, let's modify my concept"
Cooper absolutely believed that Only Hits Matter so a better system to ensure hits would likely appeal to him.
You can literally call anything a Scout Rifle if you're willing to bend and break enough rules. Sure, you can.
But it will not be a true Scout Rifle.
Last edited:
Yes.
Have you ever heard of a book about the Scout Rifle, by Richard Mann (2018) ? The title of the book is:
The Scout Rifle Study, The History of the Scout Rifle and its Place in the 21st Century.
On page 212 of that book, you can read what Richard Mann had to say about the topic of this thread:
"And that brings us to a very important point. The Scout Rifle is a concept and the man who devised that concept is gone. Before he left us he proclaimed the Steyr Scout as the definitive exhibition of his concept, and he was not 100% satisfied with it. All of the other so called Scout Rifles, either mass produced or built by talented custom gunsmiths, are nothing but an attempt to adhere to that concept. They are not and never will be true Scout Rifles because Cooper did not proclaim them as such. It does not matter if Cooper's bestest buddy thinks a rifle is a Scout Rifle and it does not matter if I think a rifle is a Scout Rifle. Cooper alone was the annointing source for that rifle."
Now, until you have researched and written a book like The Scout Rifle Study, The History of the Scout Rifle and its Place in the 21st Century, I will consider your case here on the Canadiangunnutz as being weak - very weak indeed. And I am trying as best as I can to remain polite, I can assure you.
But maybe first, you should buy the book and read it, no?
Last edited:
Whoa! I thought you were Coopers bestie?
Perhaps Cooper would have been 100% satisfied if he had access to more modern technology like a true 1x-6/8 LPVO with a red dot reticle that achieved what he wanted- quick target acquisition at close range (faster than a forward mounted scout scope) and more precise shot placement at longer ranges than a "scout" scope could achieve.
Once again we can not ignore that it is 2026 and not 1983. Coopers ideal Scout Rifle would likely be quite different if he developed the concept today.
Your case is very weak and the more you defend it, the weaker it gets.Whoa! I thought you were Coopers bestie?
Perhaps Cooper would have been 100% satisfied if he had access to more modern technology like a true 1x-6/8 LPVO with a red dot reticle that achieved what he wanted- quick target acquisition at close range (faster than a forward mounted scout scope) and more precise shot placement at longer ranges than a "scout" scope could achieve.
Once again we can not ignore that it is 2026 and not 1983. Coopers ideal Scout Rifle would likely be quite different if he developed the concept today.
Just buy the book, read it, and report back - if you dare to. And if you decide to start a fight in print with Richard Mann himself about the Scout Rifle, I would very much appreciate if you could keep all of us on the CGN informed on the issue of that fight. There is no doubt in my mind that you would prevail over Richard Mann, right at the beginning of the first round. After all, Richard Mann has written the book but he does not know what he is talking about.
But you do.
Last edited:
I don't think I've ever been dared to read a book before. This is an exciting new chapter in this thread.
Did he specify why Cooper wasn't 100% satisfied with the Steyr? That might actually be interesting to know.
I'm not a stricto sensu kinda guy. I'm more of a loose concept, does it work for me peoplekind.
A scout rifle for me is easy to carry, does what I need doing at the ranges and conditions that I need doing them..............
Last edited:
Cooper himself declared his reservations (and they were small, if memory serves) about the Steyr in writing. I'm not sure anything would have satisfied him 100%, I think every iteration he tried lead him further down the path. Perhaps he would have finished that journey, but we'll never no. - danI don't think I've ever been dared to read a book before. This is an exciting new chapter in this thread.
Did he specify why Cooper wasn't 100% satisfied with the Steyr? That might actually be interesting to know.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
On that same page 212, there are a number of statements / quotes attributed by Richard Mann to Jeff Cooper (like in Mann's book, words in Italics are from Cooper; words not in italics are by Richard Mann):
If you want to assemble or build a general-purpose rifle that it's "most outstanding characteristic is handiness," that's "light, compact and friendly," and "will put them where you point them from arm's length out to a range too great for a sensible attempt." A rifle that "will do almost anything that a rifle may be required to do, and do it well." A rifle that is , "not a battle rifle for use by fire teams, but rather a weapon to be used by one man carefully operating alone, whether in the hunting field or in the military scouting capacity. And if you want to call that rifle a Scout Rifle, as far as I am concerned you are free to do so. Cooper's relatives may not like it, Cooper's disciples may not like it, and I am sure that if Cooper were still here, he would not like it.
Further down on that same page, Mann goes on to say ," It's true we have at least some optical technology not available to Cooper pre-2006, but mechanically speaking, his specifications are spot on.
I'm not as much as a zealot of Scout rifles as others seem to be, so I'm not 100% up to speed on what he wrote about. if anyone can list what Cooper wrote about his Steyr reservations that would be both interesting and grand.
Very interesting...especially
"will put them where you point them from arm's length out to a range too great for a sensible attempt."
"optical technology not available to Cooper pre-2006"
Sounds like a good LPVO with true 1x capabilities (arms length) but also a 6/8 x magnification "out to a range too great" would be a perfect solution. A much better solution than most 2.5/3X scout scopes that are not as capable at arms length or longer ranges.
I think that's a better answer than religiously adhering to a rifle concept/ doctrine that was created 40 years ago. Imagine if people still were adamant that 40 year old telephone technology was the final say in telecommunications.
I agree. My son and I shot the Franchi Momentum Elite and in my review I believe it fits the spirit of Jeff Cooper's theme.
Its not within the specifications but it's a great, handy, short 308 rifle.
Attachments
So, one more time, for you and all of your unenlightened henchmen of the Scout Rifle:
The Scout Rifle Study, The Scout Rifle History and its Place in the 21st Century. By Richard Mann.
Firstly, buy it. Secondly, read it, all of it. Thirdly, report back, if you dare to.
If you really want me to read the book, you should just send me a copy of it. I dare you to.
