Surplus Market VS Inflation

Riflechair

Riflechair

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Location
BC
Dear Friends

I am not entirely sure of what the market value is for milsurp weapons is anymore.

In Terrace, BC (where I live) I have seen realstate properties double over the last 5 years. Meanwhile there has been a massive exitus of skilled vocations and workers due to a lack of employment opportunities. In fact we have a net reduction in population due to regional recession and net income to my town has dramatically decreased. Yet the housing market continues to increase dramatically. It woulde seem we are the next Newfoundland economy.

The comparison to the firearms market seems to be following a similar trajectory. The number of shooters out there is exponentially less. We seem to be a dying breed.

In Britain a firearm is worth more deactivated than not. How is it possible for new shooters to become immersed in milsurp shooting when WE as a community drive the prices up when the demand is becoming less and less. There are by capita less of us then there were 5 years ago. Yet the prices have almost doubled over thyat same period.

For example I purchased a wrapped Irish No4Mk2 for $450 FIVE YEARS AGO and ended up selling it for $750 unwrapped recently.

What originally made milsurp collecting interesting to me what that it was an affordable conduit to obtaining a varied and interesting historical collection. It seems to have recently turned into an elitest club - very difficult for new enthusiasts to join. I have also seen repeated attacks on CGN in the milsurp forum that would rather incriminate people for their interests rather than support them. Its rather confusing to be honest. How can we as a community allow our children and grand children appreciate the historical value of our military surplus weapons whyem they are no longer affordable in original condition? It seems to me that we are supporting the deactivation of these military surplus firearms by our own interests.

What have you done to support the actual use of military service weapons? Feel free to host your own shoots that makes original as issued firearms the mainstay of your match. See Riflechair.com for ideas.

I am not trying to make my own military shoot famous. I just want to see this hording of milsurps stop and to see these old warriors obtain some range time by the next generation of shooters. At the moment I can't even get a donation of a milsurp for my next shoot. Firearms enthusiasts used to help out in this regard merely a few years ago. We are doing ourselves harm. I feel we are in some manner assisting anti-gun groups by making the market inaccessible. I know that many of you agree. Is it within our grasp as a community to affect change? I'm really interested in your opinion.

What does your crystal ball tell you what the milsurp market will look like in the next 5 years? How do we make sure our children are able to invest in an affordable chapter of the military surplus firearms market?

Action without possibility has no imagination
Action without relationship has no commitment
Action without reflection dooms us to the same mistakes.
 
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It makes me sad to think that I have only so recently delved into the world of milsurps and firearms in general, although I'm only 19 and haven't had much time to do so. But there are some good CGN'ers out there restoring bubba'd milsurps to their former glory :D
 
Just my opinion, but how are 175 dollar Mosins out of reach?

I'm a small time collector, very small, but I do shoot all my milsurps. I guess, being of a generation that wasn't around for barrels of cheap Lee's at the hardware store I don't mind paying higher prices.

Shootable milsurps are still the cheapest genre of firearms out there.
 
The main problem with military surplus in 2008 is, most of the surplus rifles are now safe, semi and full-auto. none of which is importable. WW2 ended 63 years ago, and all thoses guns are long gone or cut up for scrap. ammo for these guns isn't made in quantity anymore because the guns aren't issued. thats why the prices are high, lack of supply in quantity and most of the western world is now allowed to collect them. when I started, enfield pistols were $15.oo,highpowers were $80.00 and enfield rifles were $20.00
 
I also think the number of shooter are increasing again, i se lots of new shooters and all of the stores down here have had to hire more staff to keep up.
 
LOTS of Russian and Finn weaponry out there in the sub-$300 category including collectible pistols, revolvers and rifles.

I think it's a matter of perspective and interest. As items become rare, they inflate in value. When items are readily available, the value drops. Pure and simple economics :)
 
Expensive milsurps are good for the milsurps, it means they're being appreciated by more folks than before, and would-be buyers are willing to invest more into acquiring (and hopefully maintaining) them.

That said, unless something causes demand to crash, prices will continue to go up. There's a finite number of milsurps out there, and since no new milsurps are being made (and will not be made until the prices warrant the cost of a commercial production run like the SSD guns or AIA Enfields)...
 
Some good points stated.
On a personall note....I started Milsurp collecting 30 years ago...my first Garand cost $450.00. This started me on the long road to Springfield Armory collecting. After 20 years of this and over 85 different model variations I finally said enough. The stuff I needed for the collection was well into the 5 digit price range.
Most of the stuff has long since been sold off to fund the other military addiction...Uniforms and equipment. Amazing how I have found there are things I need for this collection that are approaching 5 figures again...deja vu.
In all of this there is a starting point...the so-called entry level Milsurps. Once guys get addicted they will find the resources to invest in higher end stuff...it just takes some time.
I don't think high prices are really a deterent to new guys getting started in this...the main difference is if they are making it a sport or a collection. If a guy is buying to shoot the concept is different then if the guy was buying to collect. Two different concept both of which have strong merit and which also have a monetary implication as well. The new guy just has to decide where he wants to go with the milsurp concept...thats all. In the end he will find the money to do what he enjoys...price will be minor concern at that point.
Cheers
 
Riflechair said:
I am not trying to make my own military shoot famous. I just want to see this hording of milsurps stop and to see these old warriors obtain some range time by the next generation of shooters.

What does your crystal ball tell you what the milsurp market will look like in the next 5 years? How do we make sure our children are able to invest in an affordable chapter of the military surplus firearms market?
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Hording is Good!

Tell the Children to get a good education and get a job that pays well!!!

Blame the Internets and The Google!!!
 
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Not all milsurps go up in value. Ask the CA owners and they would tell you they lost their shirts on their milsurp investments.
 
Bought a 91/30 from SIR about 22 years ago for $48 delivered.
Sure , the price has gone up , but hardly compared to the others.
...Just abit of trivia on the subject ;)
 
With the introduction of the new gunlaws many people sold off their collections at a fraction of their real value, just to get rid of them. Prices reflected this glut of guns on the market and people stopped buying also driving down prices. Today, prices are returning to their proper level reflecting the real value of the guns still left in Canada, many rare models were exported to the USA during this time also, leaving fewer pieces to the new generations of canadian collectors to buy. During, this time we lost our biggest importer of milsurps who closed down his canadian importation branch. We are now left with only a few small time importers, bringing only a few hundred guns at a time. I figure in the last 5 years only about 2,000 Mosin-Nagant rifles were imported into Canada, during this period a big US Importer brought into the US Market more than 30,000 Mosin-Nagant rifles (many others also imported at least as many) that is why they are selling for much lower prices in the USA.
 
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Riflechair said:
For example I purchased a wrapped Irish No4Mk2 for $450 FIVE YEARS AGO and ended up selling it for $750 unwrapped recently.

What originally made milsurp collecting interesting to me what that it was an affordable conduit to obtaining a varied and interesting historical collection. It seems to have recently turned into an elitest club - very difficult for new enthusiasts to join... How can we as a community allow our children and grand children appreciate the historical value of our military surplus weapons whyem they are no longer affordable in original condition?
Click to expand...

I certainly don't mean offend you, Riflechair, but it seems odd that you seem to be complaining about the prices of milsurps today, yet you admit youself that you are taking part in the inflation.

As far as making these firearms available to our children, I certainly hope to see the day when my kids are interested enough to take over my collection. That is part of the reason why I am personally "hoarding". Don't forget that as people like you and I get older and decide to get out of this stuff before our estates have to do it for us, all of these old klunkers will again see the light of day - assuming they can still legally be owned.

I have many pieces in my collection that were sold to me by elderly collectors at below market value because they we so happy to see a younger generation showing interest. If my children aren't interested, I can see myself doing the same thing some day.

My $0.02.
 
myenfield said:
I certainly don't mean offend you, Riflechair, but it seems odd that you seem to be complaining about the prices of milsurps today, yet you admit youself that you are taking part in the inflation.
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NO OFFENSE TAKEN.

Yes I'm in there with the rest of you guys. I'm just as guity as anyone. The market sets the price not me. At the same time the market seems just a little bit unballanced. Just my observation anyhow.... :wave:
 
I have many pieces in my collection that were sold to me by elderly collectors at below market value because they we so happy to see a younger generation showing interest. If my children aren't interested, I can see myself doing the same thing some day.
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What a great legacy. Many collectors could leave valuable collections to their interested children and still earmark one or two pieces that 'must' be sold or gifted to a new collector.

Maybe that's something we all could do. Make a point of buying a common milsurp now, with the intention of using it as a 'seed' to help start a new collection in a younger generation later.
 
Well I have gifted a number of sporter lee enfields to new hunters. Not really the same thing but its grown into a bit of a tradition. My first lee enfield was gifted to me when I was in my early 20's from a chap I really didn't know very well. I showed an interest and he helped me out. Since then we've become very good friends. That rifle blossomed into a lifelong hobby of milsurp collecting. A seed which has been nurtured for many years.

Its a great feeling when you gift a rifle to someone and see their eyes light up.
 
If anything saves this hobby in the next 40 years it will be video games.
I overheard 2 12 year old boys at the Future Shop Game aisle arguing about Stalingrad ,T34' tanks and the Garand versus the Mauser. A lot of these kids know more about WW2 from the games than the generation that actually fought in them did. It certainly would not take much to get these same kids interested in actually shooting some of these guns.

Unfortunatly there are not many places where a kid can learn to shoot if he does not have a Dad or Grandparent directly involved in it. I grew up with a single Mom and learned to shoot through Air Cadets but it took a LOT of marching before I got my mitts on that .22 Enfield. If there was some way we could get some kids from the local school to come out and each get to fire a couple rounds from an SKS or a Mosin or Enfield as a part of history class it would make a big impression.

Now we could probably get away with that here in PA Saskatchewan but it might be a bit more problematic in TO or Vancouver. If it was up to me it would be part of the curriculum and if you don't let your kid fire the gun they don't pass.
 
I really want to thank you and Milarm for those long Lees, Martini's and Sniders you folks sold me. But then you got our 03's and M1's.
Sure prices have gone up from 30 yeas ago but then salaries have also gone up.

Bannermans was selling trapdoor Springfields for $1.50 around 1930. BUT that was a LOT of money back then.
 
I remember when a full Mcdonalds meal (Big mac, french fries, a hamburger, a coke and a hot apple pie) still gave you change from a dollar; that was around 1970. And a Enfield was $29.99 down at the Army surplus store. Now that meal will run you almost $10 and the Enfield will go for $300. Everything seems balanced.

I have to agree with Unsub about the video game thing. I have had kids come up to my table at a gun show, and know the model of the milsurp, along with the characteristics like caliber and cyclic rate of fire. They learn that from the video games. But I am not so certain that the pixels of light on a TV screen will save this hobby from the continually advancing Liberal agendas. More likely the video games will eventually be banned, as they will be blamed for the continued violence in the human race after all the guns are gone.
 
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