Bear

No experience but pitty the bear that stands down range of a man who knows how to use his sharpes rifle. You would not be 'undergunned' if that is what you are worried about.
 
Not anyone I know mack, but did you check out the gallery @ Shiloh's web site?
That would be the Sales site, not the forum.
LOTS of pics of animals taken with the Buff Busters!

LeRoy
 
macif they put the whoa on a Bull Buff I am sure that it would get the attention of a bear.

Wouldn't think twice about using one of my sharps, rollers or traps on a bear black or grizzly.

Ken.
 
When I was reloading for my 45/70 I was thinking about what bullet to load for moose.
The only thing I could think of was to drill a hole into the bullet , similiar to a dum-dum, to create expansion.
I have pics somewhere of a tree that fell over at our 200yd line on our BP range.It was riddled with cast bullets, and the bullets had hardly deformed .
Can you buy modern 45/70 bullets for hunting ?


Cheers Bob
 
nessy...
you can a wide variety of 458 cal flavored jacketed "modern" hunting bullets. 300 to 500 gr. + 458win mag boolits will work.
But why do that when cast, your own or pre-built. by the likes of M.T. Chambers, and others? What are you using them in? Hard cast will take plenty of steam before leading up-all things being equal, of course ;) YMMV

LeRoy's .02 cents
 
only thing I could think of was to drill a hole into the bullet , similiar to a dum-dum, to create expansion.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is really required at all and would IMHO be counter productive.

Many shooters of .264-.311 rifles would consider it a successful hunting bullet if thier bullets opened up to .458 and stayed together for more then a foot of meat. The hard cast 45-70 wil give the 1/2 inch hole you want every time and it wont stop for nothing. Being able to break a front shoulder and the opposite hip after bouncing along the spine might come in handy.

Elmer Kieth reported the 45-70-500 as being far superior to almost all jacketed high velocity rifle cartridges in pentration tests performed by ????? (can't remember) Long after the 300 win mag etc had come to rest the 45-70-500 just kept on ploughing through.

Just had a jog of memory. Last year that Alberta cowboy who rode his horse east to complain about hte plight of farmers carried a sharps rifle in 45-70 in his scabbord (for bears)
 
Thanks LeRoy, the problem with cast bullets I was concerned about was lack of expansion.
I was wondering what bullet people used that reload in BP for hunting, or do you just buy store bought.
Cheers Bob.
 
david doyle said:
I don't think this is really required at all and would IMHO be counter productive.

Many shooters of .264-.311 rifles would consider it a successful hunting bullet if thier bullets opened up to .458 and stayed together for more then a foot of meat. The hard cast 45-70 wil give the 1/2 inch hole you want every time and it wont stop for nothing. Being able to break a front shoulder and the opposite hip after bouncing along the spine might come in handy.

Elmer Kieth reported the 45-70-500 as being far superior to almost all jacketed high velocity rifle cartridges in pentration tests performed by ????? (can't remember) Long after the 300 win mag etc had come to rest the 45-70-500 just kept on ploughing through.

Just had a jog of memory. Last year that Alberta cowboy who rode his horse east to complain about hte plight of farmers carried a sharps rifle in 45-70 in his scabbord (for bears)
Click to expand...

Thanks David, that's interesting and informative.
So where I'm going with this is,if you had a good bullet/combo load, say for sillhouette, would you use that for hunting Bear ?
Cheers Bob.
 
nessy357....

Actually, it depends on your gun, game your after, and somewhat the powder you use. I don't cast, so am hoping to get some creedmoor and postell type boolits in the low to mid 500 gr from Ben {hint hint ;) }! I would recommend 30:1 or 25:1 mix. You kinda have to see what works best in YOUR rifle. Many things will contribute to the the accuracy-or lack thereof.
I am still in the learning process w/BP, so I would suggest asking Ben and a couple others here, for their thoughts.
David hit the proverbial nail on the head-big bullet-big hole! You don't have to worry much about penetration with a 500+gr boolit traveling at 1200 fps, let alone 1800!! If you hit it where you're supposed to-or close to it-it WILL die!
D.D. Thank you for mentioning my HERO!!

LeRoy
 
If I were hunting with a lead bullet, I would switch to paper patching soft lead slugs. I also feel that bullet placement is extremely important; much more so than with a modern high velocity slug. I also recall shooting a couple of deer with a .44-40 with jacketed bullets with soft noses; they went right through cross ways with no apparent expansion.

cheers mooncoon
 
if you had a good bullet/combo load, say for sillhouette, would you use that for hunting Bear ?
Click to expand...

nessy, I sure would. A load that you are familiar with and that your rifle likes would be my first choice even if it was a 'slow' load.

As for the shot placement comment, shot placement is CRUCIAL for any projectile be it a spear, arrow, shortmagnum with a barnes bullet or a home cast wheel wieght. I really do not think you have to be extra concerned with shot placement just because you are using a cast bullet. You have to be extra concerned about shot placement no matter what you are shooting.

Leroy, just reading the figures 1800fps and 500 grains made my shoulder neck and retinas hurt! I think reading that too much could give me a flinch LOL. (my rifle is too light)
 
A modern centerfire rifle with a jacketed controlled expanding bullet can create a massive wound cavity. I have seen a .270 go through a deer broadside and leave a 4" diameter hole in the chest. Slowspeed bullets just do not do that; to a large extent they drill holes. In many ways a blackpowder slug is more like an arrow than like a modern rifle and you certainly cannot say that a marginal shot with an arrow is just as effective as the same shot with a .270 or 30-06. Shot placement is important with any method but the less massive the tissue destruction, the more precise you have to be.

cheers mooncoon
 
My experience is....soft as possible bullet with Black Powder...harder with smokeless, however, the hard bullet has to be a good fit in the bore for accuracy. i have not heard of a soft bullet leading(with proper fit) when using BP, smokeless is a diff. story. Expansion with soft bullets, at Bp velocities, has to be seen to be believed. In the days of the buffalo hunts, hunters wanted the big bullet to expand so that it was shaped "like a coin". It would stop at the far side,under the hide, and the hunter could reuse the lead. I have had Buffalo hit by a too hard a slug, just keep on feeding.
 
Mooncoon, I think you missed my meaning what I meant was that any of the projectiles mentioned above that land in the guts is a shot in the guts. Massive tissue damage or not.
Likewise a High velocity round smacking square into a shoulder will result in massive tissue damage but not neccessarily a bang flop. You can destroyed many tens of pounds of the wrong tissue and still have a very alive animal at hand.

IMHO the bottom line is that a 400-500 grain .458 bullet at any reasonable velocity is as capapable or more capable of killing medium and large game then any other rifle cartridge commonly carried (no 470 nitro pokes please)

Jacketed bullets DID NOT come about as a result of terminal performance issues with cast bullets. Lead is more then cappable of being alloyed to perform just about any task asked it. (at cast velocities)

The Jacketed bullet is a result of a desire for higher velocities to accomadate a smaller bore size and still produce the same down range energy. We are contemplating ;arge bore cast bullets at cast bullet velocities so there is really no question. They work, they have always worked and they always will.
If we try and utilize a cast bullet in a bore that was designed for high velocity jacketed bullets then I agree there will be terminal ballistic concerns. But with the 45 cal lead is perfectly fine.
 
In many ways a blackpowder slug is more like an arrow than like a modern rifle
Click to expand...

When you can shoot endwise through a bear with an arrow or break bones as thick and hard as a large bear carries and have the projectile continue on as though nothing happend I'll take my hat off to archery. LOL
 
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