kokanee king
Regular
- Location
- Didsbury, Alberta
Are tracer rounds prohibited?
- Thread starter canadianmat
- Start date
Just cause you can't see them doesn't mean ricochets are not happening.
Having witnessed a few night shoots using tracers, the rate of ricochets is a LOT higher than you would think.
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- of No Fixed Address
+1
I've been to the nighttime tracer shoot at Knob Creek a couple of times. 75 people shooting 100% tracer on full auto will teach you more about how bullets fly (and bounce) in 2 minutes than a lifetime of shooting in almost any other scenario.
Daehanminkuk
Regular
- Location
- Seodaemun-gu, Seoul, ROK
Wow, I think the study is dead wrong. I know from personal experience the dangers with steel and W2C (Tungsten Carbide) cores as I had a fellow shooting his AR pistol at my range a few years ago hit me in the face (chin to be exact) with a ricochet.
Most of the bullet disintegrated but I got 1/2 cm piece of the core in my chin.
Never have I had that with lead core ammo unless shooting at water (skipping). Call it fluke, but I think the study is OTL. The target was a flat 1" thick reactive target on a chain.
Anyways... it was a painful lesson, please don't shoot near others at a pistol range with steel core ammo please... especially 7.62x25 and .223s ..OK!
I contacted the fellow a day after it happened. He never shot with his AR in the pistol range again. I forgave him.
Now getting back to tracers, I have seen 50BMG round for sale in 100 mile house as well as AP. Anyways.. I too have heard BS about them being illegal. It is complete nonsense. They have NEVER been prohibited. Incendiary is prohibited. Incendiary ignites upon impact and spread burning material
for the purpose of causing a fire. Tracer is designed to ignite in the barrel of the gun and is used for spotting/ testing accuracy.
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You are comparing a scientific study that likely involved hundreds of test samples against a single occurance and calling the study BS? Seriously?
The study suggests that FMJ's do not ricochet "more often" than hunting bullets. Nobody every said that FMJ's "do not" ricochet.
- Location
- Lanlgey, B.C.
Theres always the posibility of a ricochet, im sure one will see them occur more when theyre lit on fire and its dark out. I think it goes without saying that you need to use some good firearms sense when shooting anywhere especialy at close range! Now if you're using rounds that have (hard) cores you can expect to get some extra bounce on those bullets. I dont know why anyone would be on a range with tungsten cored bulets? After all arent they armor piercing?
And that is EXACTLY what an anti would say.
Why people would use or want to use steel cored ammo is not your or anyone else's concern. As long as it is legal, who cares what someone else uses?And that is EXACTLY what an anti would say.
Holy dog sh*t, Suputin puts out some of the soundest logic I've ever heard. Stop asking "why" someone would want/need/use/desire or lust for said item and lets focus on whether or not its available and how much it costs. Tungsten core ammo(in the rifle variety) is indeed AP, for light skinned vehicles. All centre fire rifle ammo is AP when referring to soft armour like the type worn by most LEO's. In any case, I don't care what anyone wants to shoot. Its the method and manner in which an individual operates that is the concern, not the equipment being used.
TDC
- Location
- Lanlgey, B.C.
And that is EXACTLY what an anti would say.
Its my own and anyones concern when youre shooting that ammo! Because you put peoples saftey in jeopardy....
- Location
- Lanlgey, B.C.
Seems like theres some clarification needed here, My original question which was answered was wether or not tracer ammo was prohib. I think we for the most part are saying the same thing, but for some reason suputin thinks that i am disagreeing with him, i am in total agreeance with the fact that all bullets ricochet, and that the facts that m39a2 mentioned earlier are probably correct, when Daehanminkuk mentioned that he caught a piece of tungsten ricochet in his chin it made me curious why some one would be firing tungsten bullets at the pistol range, correct me if im wrong but are tungsten bullets not armour piercing and prohib im not sure? So when i was asked what difference does it make what kind of ammo they shoot the evidence lies in Daehanminkuks chin, someone there thought it wouldn't matter and he found out it did. I don't think that anyone can argue the fact that lead cored bullets (regular fmj) will mush down and ricochet less than a a hard bullet? So seeing as this site promotes safe shooting i think its all in our interest to figure out whats safe and whats not.
Well, if you know what a particuliar bullet can and could do, if you are well informed about the potential risk of shooting it and if you know at what kind of backstop you're shooting at, it is safe to asume that the risk will be minimum.
But otherwise if you don't know or doesn't care, yes it could be risky.
It's all about education and to be well informed.
Safe shooting is all about education, not prohibition.
And BTW, AP or Tungsten rifle ammo and metal core ammo are not prohibited.
But otherwise if you don't know or doesn't care, yes it could be risky.
It's all about education and to be well informed.
Safe shooting is all about education, not prohibition.
And BTW, AP or Tungsten rifle ammo and metal core ammo are not prohibited.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Steel core rounds are often sold as cheap surplus, I'm sorry canadianmat, but I'll be shooting steel core whenever it's cheaper than lead core. Also, we're going to be seeing MOST practice ammo go to steel core in the future as lead control regulations become more stringent. Better get used to it, it's no more dangerous than any other round.
Bear in mind as well, your argument concerns me, as you sound an awful lot like the old "nobody needs hollowpoint pistol rounds, why are they shooting those on the range". That bit of hogwash was repealed, as it should be, giving shooters access to a wider selection of bullets, I'd hate to have the same type of massive limitation put on steel core ammo for no good reason. Just remember, your argument is the tip of the greater argument "Nobody needs [insert contentious item]". I just hate seeing self censoring/prohibition in our already challenged sport. I want to be VERY clear, I'm not ragging on you or upset with your viewpoint, I appreciate your input. Simply clarifying how I see it with no hard feelings, cheers and hapyp shooting!
Hey Mat, I thought you read my Newbie FAQ Section.
NO, AP rifle ammo is not prohibited. You stand corrected.
And for what its worth, when I fired some WW2 British made 8x57 Mauser Tungsten Carbide core ammo at a 1/2 mild steel (W44 or A36 probably) plate, the core punched right through, while the outer copper-nickel jacket shed off, and splashed back. Firing a lead core at the same plate, nothing penetrated the plate, it all splashed back towards the shooter.
So, if ricochets back to the firing position is the concern, then perhaps AP is better/safer?
- Location
- Lanlgey, B.C.
Hey Mat, I thought you read my Newbie FAQ Section.
NO, AP rifle ammo is not prohibited. You stand corrected.
And for what its worth, when I fired some WW2 British made 8x57 Mauser Tungsten Carbide core ammo at a 1/2 mild steel (W44 or A36 probably) plate, the core punched right through, while the outer copper-nickel jacket shed off, and splashed back. Firing a lead core at the same plate, nothing penetrated the plate, it all splashed back towards the shooter.
So, if ricochets back to the firing position is the concern, then perhaps AP is better/safer?
I read it but am a little unclear still about pistol ammuniton. Maybe its the same but i thought that pistol ammo was prohib when ap. which is what Daehanminkuk was describing with his ricochet story, or at least thats what i was gathering. You do have a good point with your penetration example on the ww2 rifle ammo. Do you recon the same effects would happen with a pistol ?
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Daehanminkuk was talking about .223 Remington was he not...? Not a handgun caliber... maybe I've missed something and it was a 9mm AR, but it sounds like it was a .223 as just about every AR is. I could be wrong, don't feel like scrolling back.
