This is a case of diminishing returns. At the very high end of powder capacity, the return in velocity as weighed against the percentage of powder charge increase is not linear, and Barnsness was actually right commenting that the .35 Whelen is not the greatest candidate for the Improved version unlike the .257 Roberts, 7X57, .30-30, and .280. As noted above the standard .35 is a confusing and exceptional caliber all on it's own, driving heavy bullets faster than an '06 can while maintaining great SD. Like the .338-06 it's hard to explain why it does what it can, but it just does. Any opened up '06 typically really shines. BTW, contrary to a lot of opinions it WAS invented by Colonel Whelen, not simply named after him....
35 whelen VS 35 whelen imp.
- Thread starter dumprat
- Start date
This is a case of diminishing returns. At the very high end of powder capacity, the return in velocity as weighed against the percentage of powder charge increase is not linear, and Barnsness was actually right commenting that the .35 Whelen is not the greatest candidate for the Improved version unlike the .257 Roberts, 7X57, .30-30, and .280. As noted above the standard .35 is a confusing and exceptional caliber all on it's own, driving heavy bullets faster than an '06 can while maintaining great SD. Like the .338-06 it's hard to explain why it does what it can, but it just does. Any opened up '06 typically really shines. BTW, contrary to a lot of opinions it WAS invented by Colonel Whelen, not simply named after him....
I once had a 338-06 that had been modified by decreaseing the taper on the body to 1 degree, a 40 degree shoulder and lengthened the body so that only .200 remained for a neck.
The short neck will bring shivers to many, but it was built on a Ruger #1 and of course was a single load operation.
This chambering, significantly increased powder capacity and recoil. I eventually pulled the barrel and cut it back to 338-08 length and mounted it on a mauser 98 action, where it still resides.
The rifle was accurate and as I said above, recoiled beyond my limits. The same reason I gave up on the 338 WM.
The standard 338-06 is just fine for me and is my cartridge of choice for everything from deer on up.
The 35W and the 9.3 are also just fine, but I have to agree with Andy, If you want a magnum, buy one. It's a lot less hassle, but maybe not as much fun. This is where a chronograph, when used properly, will tell the truth.
Another thing, It's almost impossible to give an accurate velocity that will be relevant from one rifle to the next. Even with the same barrel length, maker and chamber reamer. I have two Gaillard 30 cal, 1-12 twist, barrels that slug exactly the same and are chambered with the same 308Win Palma Match reamer. The chambers are as close as sh-t is to swearing. With the same load recipe, although very accurate in both, the Remington is always 75+ fps faster than the Winchester M70. Headspace is less than .001 difference between the two. Not enough to make any difference. The Winchester has the tightest headspace.
The velocity difference between the two is greater than AI improveing many cartridges will accomplish.
bearhunter
The short neck will bring shivers to many, but it was built on a Ruger #1 and of course was a single load operation.
This chambering, significantly increased powder capacity and recoil. I eventually pulled the barrel and cut it back to 338-08 length and mounted it on a mauser 98 action, where it still resides.
The rifle was accurate and as I said above, recoiled beyond my limits. The same reason I gave up on the 338 WM.
The standard 338-06 is just fine for me and is my cartridge of choice for everything from deer on up.
The 35W and the 9.3 are also just fine, but I have to agree with Andy, If you want a magnum, buy one. It's a lot less hassle, but maybe not as much fun. This is where a chronograph, when used properly, will tell the truth.
Another thing, It's almost impossible to give an accurate velocity that will be relevant from one rifle to the next. Even with the same barrel length, maker and chamber reamer. I have two Gaillard 30 cal, 1-12 twist, barrels that slug exactly the same and are chambered with the same 308Win Palma Match reamer. The chambers are as close as sh-t is to swearing. With the same load recipe, although very accurate in both, the Remington is always 75+ fps faster than the Winchester M70. Headspace is less than .001 difference between the two. Not enough to make any difference. The Winchester has the tightest headspace.
The velocity difference between the two is greater than AI improveing many cartridges will accomplish.
bearhunter
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I agree with dumprat, I hate metric too, nothing in that list worth owning IMHO, especially the 7mm Mag.
I have them all covered and then some with my 270 Win, 35 Whelen AI and 338 RUM thank you very much.
- Location
- In the Badlands of Alberta
Well let's see now. Factory 35 Whelen from what 2 manufacturers come quickly to mind,might be more. 9.3x62 let's see just about every Euro Manufacturer that makes centerfire bolt actions offer the chambering.
Well I guess you're right, the 9.3x62 guns and ammo would be way more available than the 35Whelen
........ in Europe.
.
Never takes long for the 9.3x62 boys to jump onto a 35 Whelen thread. It's just a cartridge that uses a bit more powder and can push same weight bullets a bit faster than the 35 Whelen. If your game cannot be killed by a 250gr at 2550 fps from a 35 Whelen, then maybe a 286gr at about the same MV from a 9.3x62 can do it. Right.
Usually about now one of them claims it to be every bit as good as the 375 H&H. We all know that among all cartridges, only the 9.3x62 defies the laws of physics.
Usually about now one of them claims it to be every bit as good as the 375 H&H. We all know that among all cartridges, only the 9.3x62 defies the laws of physics.
- Location
- In the Badlands of Alberta
Exactly. I tripped upon the 9.3x62 while looking into the Whelen. Kept coming across references to it. One day I was at Accuracy Plus checking out a Rem 700 in Whelen. Did'nt like the feel of it. No Rugers around,so they said what about a 9.3x62. Checked out two types of HVAs,and a SHR 970. Felt much better to me. They also had more ammo choices to pick from. Started looking into the round more. The more I looked the more options I found. Ended up ordering a Tikka. Still would buy a Whelen,if I could find it in a gun that fits me.
Did anyone say the 9.3x62 was far superior to the .35 Whelen? From your post it sure sounds that way. If someone is looking at a .35 Whelen AI to get a little more oomph, then it only makes sense to look at the 9.3x62, as it also offers a little more oomph. Practically speaking it won't amount to a hill of beans, but the the AI version's improvement over the regular Whelen doesn't either. I bet the 9.3 would also have a better resale value than the AI.
I have a 35 Whelen and have had it for about 20 years. I would not even consider rechambering it to an AI version or a Brown-Whelen. I Have been considering a change to the 358 Norma but have yet to convince myself it's necessary. If one wants more power than the Whelen provides though, the Norma is probably the way to go.
Comparisons of AI cartridges to the parent case are often a bit distorted. Case capacity measurements are sometimes done with virgin brass (factory) compared to fireformed, unsized brass (AI version). Velocities are compared using factory loads in the standard chambering and very hot loads in the AI. In the end, the reason for going with the AI is often just the "cool" factor. Regards, Bill.
Comparisons of AI cartridges to the parent case are often a bit distorted. Case capacity measurements are sometimes done with virgin brass (factory) compared to fireformed, unsized brass (AI version). Velocities are compared using factory loads in the standard chambering and very hot loads in the AI. In the end, the reason for going with the AI is often just the "cool" factor. Regards, Bill.
The "Ackley Improved" chambers are sometimes not so great a gain in ballistics, but in some cases, the redesigned case gives other benefits that are not always considered. For example, the 6.5x55. The velocity gain is there, but nothing spectacular. However, Brass life is improved dramatically, and you can neck size a 6.5x55AI case 10 times and it will still chamber easily, whereas the standard case needs a FL sizing every 3-4 firings to be able to chamber it easily, even with rather modest loads. The 22-250 & 220 Swift are 2 others that benefit case life when AI'd. Cases with less taper to start with are benefitted less in this respect. Regards, Eagleye
No Bill; you are doing something right!! Is this a chamber you cut yourself, or are you using a relatively modest load of slow buring propellant? I defer to your experience as an established & respected gunsmith. However, I have owned a number of 6.5x55 rifles, and do not "Hotrod" them, yet they seem to get tighter and tighter each time I fire them, until it becomes imperative to "bump" the shoulder slightly. No issues with brass life, just seems that closing the bolt on that "tight" case is a liability with hunting ammo. Regards, Eagleye
Custom barrel and chamber. Loaded with 4831 to drive 140's at 2800fps. Case stretching is often blamed on case design when it is really due to some other factor. My P14 in 303 does not stretch cases at all. The Lee Enfields do. I had one 700 in the shop which stretched cases badly (it was a 6mm Remington which had been re-barreled by Shilen). It turned out the problem was a bolt face which was not square. After truing up the bolt face and setting the barrel back to correct the resultant headspace, the problem was gone and cases no longer stretched.
Another common cause is a chamber which is a little on the large side. The shooter partial sizes the cases and, as the die squeezes the body slightly, the shoulder bulges forward. A couple of firings and sizings like this and the case goes in tight. Regards, Bill.;
Another common cause is a chamber which is a little on the large side. The shooter partial sizes the cases and, as the die squeezes the body slightly, the shoulder bulges forward. A couple of firings and sizings like this and the case goes in tight. Regards, Bill.;
