Gun Juice - Application, and breaking in of Precision rifle barrels.

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Styled

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I'll be using this stuff on a few of my Precision rifles. ;)

I know a few of the Precision Rifles forum readers use this stuff and I have a few questions to those who use Microlon's Gun Juice.

As I understand it you use this product on a completely clean bore, wet patch in bore, fire, wet patch in bore, fire, and repeating this 10 times, or more if POI is still raising on your target. This will coat the bore permanently benefiting in less copper fouling, less wear on the barrel, and a possible increase in velocity.

1. Would it not be better to wet patch the bore, shoot, clean bore, wet patch, shoot, clean bore, repeat? This way you are coating the bore each time not the fouling caused by the previous firing?

2. I am also thinking that as the Gun Juice is a type of lubricant that pressures of the bullet traveling down the bore would be lowered? Does this mean that to get the possible increase in velocity (or maintain old vel.) you would have to increase the amount of powder you use?

Thanks in advance.
 
I tried it on a very nice and accurate barrel.

Gun Juice is a cleaner as well as leaving a deposit of Teflon.

So the idea is that while you are running a wet patch down the bore, the solvents are removing the powder fouling (yes, it definitely takes out fouling as the black patches show). The teflon is still in suspension until the driven into the surface by the force of the passing bullet.

I kept good notes while working up this barrel both for accuracy and velocity. Chronied the ammo just before the application process so I could track before and after results.

The application of Gun Juice did what was expected. There was a significant drop in velocity on the first few shots then an increase as the rd count approached ten.

To my dismay, the velocity did not reach what I had BEFORE application. 2850fps before, 2725fps after. I continued on to 20rds but the velocity never increased so I gave up.

Accuracy returned to what was the norm with the same load however.

So worked up the load again going past my best load to try and gain back velocity I lost.

Never happened, although muzzle velocity stayed lower, pressures signs showed up at the same powder amounts as pretreatment.

Essentially, I had lost 100fps for my efforts.

The LR accuracy remained the same so there was no loss there. Only thing was needing much more up as the velocity drop had a very obvious effect on my drop chart.

I shelved the use of this product so have a almost full bottle for anyone that wants to try. Just pay shipping and its yours.

This was my one and only experience with the product so YMMV.

Jerry
 
Weird, have been doing the same thing on all my rigs and have seen the exact opposite. Well if it works for you, great if not...in gerry's experience he's going without. I love the stuff, and it works for me.
 
Rick from ATR swears by it. I know he uses it in a 300wm with great success.

I've used in a new 22-250. Since I dont have a crony, I'm not really sure of the difference in speed. I also used it in a 7mm RUM I have that fouls really bad. Havent shot the gun since I applied about 100 applications (as per ATR recommendations).

The guns shoot good but I really hate days of cleaning after only a few rounds down the barrel.

I also have some Ultra Coatings Bore Coat I might try if the gunjuice doesnt help in the RUM.
 
C4Pyros as well as a large number of my clients experiences seem to be what I hear mostly. The number of nay sayers I have encountered over the years have been very few and usually it is related to pilot error in some way. Many products abound and many opinions abound with them.

Any gains in velocity are just a bonus. I have experienced most rifles DO gain velocity while a few do not. The 1 thing that I have found in EVERY rifle I have used it in is that it takes ALOT longer for any copper fouling to build up and it cleans far easier than without the use of Gun Juice.
Another positive point is that it is a dry film lubricant, so can be used on bolts, triggers , slides etc, which also helps make cleaning easier but does not attarct or have grit or debris stick to it.

Since using Gun Juice I have also found barrel life has been unexplicably extended significantly.
The 300 win mag that Mikee mentions has just over 5000 rounds and still shoots sub 1/2 moa. There is just the beginnings of throat erosion and faint firecracking is just starting to appear. This is unusual to say the least , this barrel as well several others I own should look like an alligator skin.
I expect there will be others that chime in with their results.
My advice is to closely follow the instructions that come with the product.

FWIW the maker claims it is NOT Teflon or PTFE, not having a lab to analyze the product I can't say what it really is that is the key component. Maybe Jerry has had it analyzed for content?
 
Nope, just got the mentioning of Teflon and TFE resins in an article on the Microlon website.

http://www.microlon.com/PDF/AmericanGunsmith.pdf

Since the article was not amended/corrected and is on their site as a letter of influence, got to think the author was in the right chemical ballpark.

Anyways, it works for you...great. Didn't work for me....great.

Sample size of ONE.

YMMV.

Jerry

PS a CGN member has taken up my offer so my bottle will be heading to a new home shortly. Be great to hear their results.
 
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I'm thinking gun juice may work best in a 5R style barrel.
I have noticed that all the so-so reviews I have read were on non 5R barrels.

Anything to add Rick?
 
i juiced my krieger barrel, also chrono'd every round for 15 shots. my poi came up after the 2nd shot approx 1/2" then the next 13 rounfs went into 1 ragged hole about 1/2", this was at 150 yards. my velocity never changed over the test either. i did this after i had approx 400 rounfs down the pipe. after i kept the same load as previous used, but i did notice when i put it over the chrono about 400 rounds later that the same load was shooting about 50 fps faster. i can't say if this was a result of the juice or barrel wear, as some claim that after you have 400-500 rounds down the barrel your speed will come up. i do know of another that juiced 2 custom barrels and found the same as me in regards to the poi and speed, but he also juiced a factory barrel and found the poi rising as claimed. so i still am not convinced as to its effectiveness. one question i have to ask is... if this stuff is so good why are none of the top benchrest shooters, palma guys and the like talking about it or using it???
 
I've been using It for years and I can't imagine not using it. As Rick Mentions about his 300WM. I have used it in mine for the last 3+ years and over 3500 rnd's and the barrel is still like new It's an RKS and those that have played with it and seen it know what this rifle can do.
As far as a gain in velocity or loss I can not talk to it as I have used gun juice right from the get go on all my rifles and have no complaints. The accuracy is there, the ease of cleaning is there and the lack of barrel or parts wear is there. Plus being a dry film works extreamly well in the winter.

I swear by it. snake oil or not.:D
 
I use gun juice only after the barrel is clean. I find it cleans fouling alright but other cleaners work better and cost a lot less. The only real reason I use the stuff is when it does come time to clean it is a lot easier. Fouling just about falls out of the barrel when it is properly coated.

What convinced me was a problem barrel that had 300 rounds down it and was still copper fouling bad. It took forever to get it properly clean and running the rod down it that much is just not a good thing. After the initial break in with the gun juice, fouling was reduced significantly and what was left came out fast.

Now I have not noticed any significant increase or decrease in velocity but I have noticed a little better barrel life, probably because I do not have to clean my barrels nearly as much.

Bottom line is I don’t care about velocity anyway. Gun Juice gives cleaner barrels and clean barrels = better accuracy. Accuracy is what I do care about.

Dave
 
c4pyro said:
Weird, have been doing the same thing on all my rigs and have seen the exact opposite. Well if it works for you, great if not...in gerry's experience he's going without. I love the stuff, and it works for me.
Click to expand...

I was sitting at the bench next to C4Pyro on Saturday at the range. The groups out of his gun were pretty nice.

I'm using gunjuice just for ease of cleaning. I dont really care much about a small loss or gain in velocity.

By the way, I was the one the one who made mention of your punisher symbol on the barrel of your gun.
I knew I had seen it somewhere before.
 
Thanks Jerry, scared the crap out of me now!:D What kind of barrel, caliber?

Really in any event it is nice to get both sides of the fence on stuff like this. I just would have guessed some one would have experienced it not to work at all, rather then have a reverse effect. Which brings me to still wonder if users of the stuff are getting velocity increases with the same loads (no added powder to compensate)?

Any one want to add how they coated their barrels, and avg vel increase/decrease?

I understand the active chemicals are suspended until fired.. however there would still be copper fouling in the barrel, and further firing seems like you would be coating layers of copper fouling over each other with the Juice?

Last... hows the chamber been with this stuff in it? I'm sure as you are patching it gets into the chamber. Just wondering how the brass reacts to a slick chamber?

As said I have ordered some of this stuff, and will use it on the other parts of my firearms, but am undecided if I will put it in the bore of my more expensive firearms.

Thanks again guys.
 
mysticplayer said:
Nope, just got the mentioning of Teflon and TFE resins in an article on the Microlon website.

http://www.microlon.com/PDF/AmericanGunsmith.pdf

Since the article was not amended/corrected and is on their site as a letter of influence, got to think the author was in the right chemical ballpark.

Anyways, it works for you...great. Didn't work for me....great.

Sample size of ONE.

YMMV.

Jerry

PS a CGN member has taken up my offer so my bottle will be heading to a new home shortly. Be great to hear their results.
Click to expand...

I see what you mean about their website. The guys I talked to originally many years ago swore that there was no PTFE or Teflon in it.
I guess I was lied to again:redface:
 
Styled said:
Thanks Jerry, scared the crap out of me now!:D What kind of barrel, caliber?

Really in any event it is nice to get both sides of the fence on stuff like this. I just would have guessed some one would have experienced it not to work at all, rather then have a reverse effect. Which brings me to still wonder if users of the stuff are getting velocity increases with the same loads (no added powder to compensate)?

Any one want to add how they coated their barrels, and avg vel increase/decrease?

I understand the active chemicals are suspended until fired.. however there would still be copper fouling in the barrel, and further firing seems like you would be coating layers of copper fouling over each other with the Juice?

Last... hows the chamber been with this stuff in it? I'm sure as you are patching it gets into the chamber. Just wondering how the brass reacts to a slick chamber?

As said I have ordered some of this stuff, and will use it on the other parts of my firearms, but am undecided if I will put it in the bore of my more expensive firearms.

Thanks again guys.
Click to expand...

99% of the guys who use it and swear by it, that are shooting rifles I have built are all shooting VERY high end expensive rifles, so if you are concerned, you need not be.
LRCs rig , BUMs rig and my own 300 all are wearing RKS barrels.
C4s, Glocks , Jimbos, LRC and Danger Debs 308s all have Rock Creek barrels
Bradtothebone, Kevan's, Glocks, Jimbos and my own 338LAI all have Rock Creek barrels
None of these rifles was under $6K so we are not monkeying with Stevens 200s here.

Chambers are NOT affected in any way.
The slight bit of copper fouling the 1st round leaves behind you will not notice, I looked with the borescope to see as I had this concern as well.
IF you have a rough bore this can be a concern, but then again a rough bore is always a concern and typically the rifles won't shoot well until there is significant copper fouling established.

Gun Juice is much like Moly, either you love it or despise it, the only way you will see is to try it for yourself.
This is NOT a new product, it has been around for alot of years, I guess they must have something going.
 
I used it on my ltr as well and it shot very well, and cleaned well for a factory remington barrel. All in all I like it. And for the 40 bucks it cost for a big can that has lasted me a year and is still half full, I can't complain. its in most of my guns. I took a head gun to my kimber tac pro II and its is amazingly easy to clean and is oh so smooth. It was smooth before, but now its magnified. As said before, if you like it great, if not, and you gun still shoots great. To each his own. (also did my AR bolts with it....no more scraping carbon build up with a knife...it falls off.)

And Mikee, nice to put a face to the name on the boards.
 
No worries Rick, I ordered it because I know you use it and swear by it. All in all seems like a good product for most people and I'll have to try it for my self. If that means putting it through a Stevens 200 first and evaluating, that's fine.

I am the type of person that likes to learn as I am doing new things, which is why I researched the product before ordering. What I learnt to date is that there is little actual information, or real world accounts of this stuff other then people mentioning it here, or your posts in that "other" forum.

The reason the paragraphs in my postings have ended with question marks is to attempt to spark conversation about this product, and learn. Many answers to potential future consumers of this product have already been answered here, and when they search for "Gun Juice" they will happen a pone this thread and learn like I have been able to do.

What I can say is that any time I have read your posts, or guys like Jerry's among others I have learned more then I would have if you guys did not participate, or answer PM's, and Emails. For this I thank you all.

Now umm... hows Gun Juice taste, I bet it does wonders for constipation... ;)
 
I Have a savage 243

that i got for a jeep beater gun, and have shot groups already, and i also have a 260AI coming, I will do a before and after for each.... As it sits my stock 243 is ready to rock.... will post pics when i finish.....:D
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
I see what you mean about their website. The guys I talked to originally many years ago swore that there was no PTFE or Teflon in it.
I guess I was lied to again:redface:
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Rick, I don't they lied to you at all. They just omitted the info they didn't want you to have.

Years ago, you could have been anyone trying to steal their formulation. They are most certainly descrete with their information. Look at their site. Real cloak and dagger descriptions.

However, anyone interested could just run the product through a mass spec and pretty much dial in the major components. A bit more chemistry and you are in the right general ballpark.

A dry film lubricant is the holy grail of engines. Could you imagine what the impact on the world would be if some product dumped into an engine increased effeciency by ANY reasonable measure.

What would the drivers of the world pay to save 5% in fuel annually? Me thinks that would be worth a few pesos.

Either they would be the riches person on earth or dissappear in a tinted window van. So far, Microlon has not taken over the world and they have had the time for their benefits to take effect.

Some will like, some will not...so what.

Styled, my barrel was a 7 twist 5R SS Select match 223 made by Pac Nor.

Maybe some top shooters are using this product and keeping it quiet?:dancingbanana:

The key to any products success at the competitive level is consistency AND repeatability. A product that works sometimes or under some conditions is great info to have and some will use it but not going to revolutionize the sport.

Paradigm shifting products/process don't come along often these days. But it doesn't stop many from experimenting and sometimes, we get lucky.

Sort of like meplat trimming. Benefits are small and inconsistent. Some bullets improve, others don't change enough to warrant the effort.

Meplat pointing. That seems to be getting more attention and seems to be working. Again, small benefits but measureable. And if it can be duplicated over time, might just change the way match bullets are made.

There are some that consider Boron Nitride the new wonder coating. It is working for them...great. But I bet it has not been successful for others.

What is typical is that fouling in any match quality lapped barrel is slim to nil. It better be for the price we pay. So adding a product that reduces it 'more' may not change much of anything.

Big reason that 'BR' focused bore cleaners are so mild. They have little work to do.

What I would like to see is a before and after effect on a factory rough barrel. Now we may be getting some benefits. Maybe not.

I know that moly really helped me in rough bores of surplus rifles. Benefit, not so much in BR quality pipes. But then, why would it?

Buy some, try it, like it or not...it's all good. NO ONE has ever reported that it made a barrel shoot worse so what's the worse the can happen?

Let us know how it works for you.

Jerry
 
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