7mm-08...7mm.....280

[220Swifty]

I'm curious can you place your shot in field/hunting conditions exactly were you want it to go everytime?

If your answer is yes then you either don't shoot enough or your lying to yourself.

Everyone with experience knows that if everything is equal ie bullet construction, velocity, shot placement etc a larger caliber bullet will do more damage resulting in possibly stopping a poorly shot animal faster now add some velocity...

If i can't, i will wait for a better shot.

IE, a 400 yd running whitetail, no matter what he is wearing on his head, will cause me to lift my rifle and let him keep running. A 150 yd deer in the same situation is going to get shot at, as long as he is running in open country. IF the first bullet doesn't get it done, the second will.

Pick your shots, you shouldn't have issues hitting what you want to hit. If you do, spend more time on the trigger BEFORE hunting season. Some will say at the range, but i personally prefer coyotes and gophers to hone my shooting before the season. Know your gun, hunt with some common sense and patience, and you should not have a problem putting them where they count EVERY time.

 

[kimberman]

I have no problem at all with magnums, I've owned stuff from 7mm Rem Mag, a couple of WSM's, a few 300 WM's, and 2 338 WM. I liked them all. None of them killed anything any faster or farther than my .270, with the exception of the .338, all bullets being equal.
The fact is that the majority of people do not shoot magnums half as well as they will shoot a 7mm-08 or .270 or 30-06 for that matter. And that means that they are relying on magnumitis to cure their poor shot placement. Which is pure BS. The only "extra" killing power a sub .35 magnum really has is penetration, and that is a great thing if applied appropriately by a practiced marksman. So for the average broadside or slightly quartering shot that is the majority, I do think that a magnum is a waste of powder and recoil.



As for this comment, what a very adolescent use of logic. First .338's are not all magnums. ie. 338 Federal, 338-06, 338 Scovill, 338-284, 338x57, etc. Secondly, a house divided against itself eventually falls, that means if I "named" myself after the .338 and I did not like it I would be causing self confusion. So no, I like the .338 bore and I use it. But I would never use the incredibly AA word "dissing". I don't like Escalades either.

Nor did I accuse you of magnumitis. I suggested that the need to restrict the 7mm-08 to 200yds shows a sign of inexperience with the cartridge on elk or even moose. If your 300 WSM makes you warm and fuzzy at night in elk camp, then congratulations on using a rifle you have confidence in. And if you really want more "clout" in the future, then hit them with a truck. It has wayyyyy more paper energy than anything in your gun closet. Thanks for the laugh.

Ha, hit'em with a truck eh? That sounds like adolescent logic to me.

How can you say that a 7mm rem has equal killing power to a 7-08? You can shoot heavier bullets faster in the 7 mag, with a higher BC and more retained energy than a 7-08 can. Flatter shooting makes it easier to adjust your point of aim for proper point of impact, heavier bullets at higher speed mean more penetration. A 7mm rem mag will have little more felt recoil than a .30-06. People can shoot bigger guns well, it takes practice, proper load, and the proper equipment. Just because you shoot a 7-08 with less recoil doesn't mean you don't need to practice shooting to be comfortable with that rifle. When I'm lined up on a nice big 6 point elk at 400 yds, I don't want to be wondering If my gun will take him, I will know my gun can take him.

Not every shot in a hunting situation is taken in perfect form, or perfect conditions, and you need to be prepared for error. Everybody has good days and bad, and if using a little bigger gun can help make the difference I'll do it, and I'll practice all summer so that I am procfiecnt with that firearm. Thats something everybody should do regardless of caliber. It would be better for our sport and our wildlife.

As for the .338's, FYI, a rem 338 win, is a remington rifle in .338 win MAG.

 

[senior]

If i can't, i will wait for a better shot.

IE, a 400 yd running whitetail, no matter what he is wearing on his head, will cause me to lift my rifle and let him keep running. A 150 yd deer in the same situation is going to get shot at, as long as he is running in open country. IF the first bullet doesn't get it done, the second will.

Pick your shots, you shouldn't have issues hitting what you want to hit. If you do, spend more time on the trigger BEFORE hunting season. Some will say at the range, but i personally prefer coyotes and gophers to hone my shooting before the season. Know your gun, hunt with some common sense and patience, and you should not have a problem putting them where they count EVERY time.

You obviously are an amazing hunter to never have clipped a twig, never had animal move at the last second or NEVER just plain missed
Your sounding like an internet hunter where everythings perfect

The original question was an "average" hunter,
I believe an average hunter is not neccessarily a great shot & probably should not shoot beyond 200 yds. I also believe an average hunter may make more bad decisions on whether too shoot or not & so would probably be better served with a slightly heavier cartridge than those listed above.

 

[ben hunchak]

Doesn't matter to me as long as it's 7mm, Raum,Saum, STW, it's all good!

 

[Gatehouse]

You obviously are an amazing hunter to never have clipped a twig, never had animal move at the last second or NEVER just plain missed
Your sounding like an internet hunter where everythings perfect

The original question was an "average" hunter,
I believe an average hunter is not neccessarily a great shot & probably should not shoot beyond 200 yds. I also believe an average hunter may make more bad decisions on whether too shoot or not & so would probably be better served with a slightly heavier cartridge than those listed above.

You think you need a bigger cartridge than a 7mm to kill an elk?

 

[senior]

You think you need a bigger cartridge than a 7mm to kill an elk?

If your question is DO I need a bigger gun?
Then the answer is no.
But if I had a bigger gun available I felt comfortable with then I would use it.
Like I said, the original question specified "average hunter" I may only be an averge hunter but I reload enough to know ballistics & shoot enough to be slightly better than average. IMHO

 

[220Swifty]

You obviously are an amazing hunter to never have clipped a twig, never had animal move at the last second or NEVER just plain missed
Your sounding like an internet hunter where everythings perfect

The original question was an "average" hunter,
I believe an average hunter is not neccessarily a great shot & probably should not shoot beyond 200 yds. I also believe an average hunter may make more bad decisions on whether too shoot or not & so would probably be better served with a slightly heavier cartridge than those listed above.

I confess, i allow for 6" one way or the other from the point of aim. If any game animal can move more than 6" from the time the trigger breaks until the time the bullet arrives, then it is probably bullet proof too.

Clipping a twig is something i try and avoid, i pick shooting lanes. If i am shooting in the bush, i usually am carrying accordingly and throwing a bit bigger peice of lead. That being said, i do not think the 7-08 is too small for the average elk hunter. My wife is starting on a cow elk draw this year, and when she draws it, she will likely be packing a 260. We will work to get her a shot within her capabilities (note: i said HER abilities, not the rifles), and put it where it counts. The elk will die, even though that little 260 should have only bruised it. Funny thing is that when that day comes, i will probably be packing a 338 for bull elk. Not because I think my 280 is inadequate, but because i like the cannon too.

 

[MTM]

7mms

You think you need a bigger cartridge than a 7mm to kill an elk?

No you don't need a bigger one to kill Elk. Just to let you know where I'm comeing from, I've only shot 2 Elk both good bulls. One with a 340 WBY with a 225 Partition at 3100 and the other with a .416 Rem. with a 300 X bullet at 2950 Fps. Both fell in their tracks with one shot. I own bigger guns and can shoot them, I don't bash guys for useing smaller guns but don't understand why people assume if you shoot bigger than .30 you're flinching and can't place your shots. I guess to boils down to, they'll all work. Use what you have/like. I'll be packing something big for Moose and Elk because I can.

 

[Gatehouse]

No you don't need a bigger one to kill Elk.

That's good. I don't know how many elk have been killed with 7-08/7x57/280/7x61/7mmMagnums but I presume it's more than a small handful...

 

[guntech]

I also believe an average hunter may make more bad decisions on whether too shoot or not & so would probably be better served with a slightly heavier cartridge than those listed above.

I think an average hunter would not handle the recoil of a heavier cartridge and not shoot as accurately as he would with a 7mm 08. So if he was bad to start with he is going to be even worse... I don't know how he would be better served shooting less accurately ...

The 7mm Mag is considerably more cartridge than a 7mm-08. The poll is a little flawed in some of the questions asked when you compare the smallest with the biggest.

And this thread sure got hijacked...


.

 

[TangoKilo]

Add my vote for a 7 X 57 Mauser.
I like the cartridge and have killed elk and moose with it. Is it better or worse than a 7mm Mag... Nope not in my opinion.

 

[rem338win]

Ha, hit'em with a truck eh? That sounds like adolescent logic to me.:rolleye:

How can you say that a 7mm rem has equal killing power to a 7-08? You can shoot heavier bullets faster in the 7 mag, with a higher BC and more retained energy than a 7-08 can. Flatter shooting makes it easier to adjust your point of aim for proper point of impact, heavier bullets at higher speed mean more penetration. A 7mm rem mag will have little more felt recoil than a .30-06. People can shoot bigger guns well, it takes practice, proper load, and the proper equipment. Just because you shoot a 7-08 with less recoil doesn't mean you don't need to practice shooting to be comfortable with that rifle. When I'm lined up on a nice big 6 point elk at 400 yds, I don't want to be wondering If my gun will take him, I will know my gun can take him.

Not every shot in a hunting situation is taken in perfect form, or perfect conditions, and you need to be prepared for error. Everybody has good days and bad, and if using a little bigger gun can help make the difference I'll do it, and I'll practice all summer so that I am procfiecnt with that firearm. Thats something everybody should do regardless of caliber. It would be better for our sport and our wildlife.

As for the .338's, FYI, a rem 338 win, is a remington rifle in .338 win MAG.

Ok, I now this isn't an easy subject so I'll go slow. Animals die when you put a hole through their very important stuff (ie, heart, lungs, liver, spine, brain). A 7mm bullet is a 7mm bullet and is limited by starting out at 7mm. A 140gr 7mm bullet at 2900fps vs a 7mm bullet at 3200fps amounts to about 4" of drop difference at 400yds with the same 100yd point of impact. At 400yds they will both penetrate broadside thorugh an elk as the velocity difference is about the same at 100yds (2050fps vs 2375fps). That means there will be a hole through both sides spitting blood. Does it sound like the magnum did any better? No, it didn't.

And how does flatter shooting mean easier adjustment for your point of aim? If your 7mm Mag drops 14" at 400yds you need to know that. If your 7-08 drops 19" you need to know that. But hey I am sure all the magnum you have shot shoot like a "laser" out to 500yds so you needn't worry

As for practicing, equipment, and getting used to your gun; of course. That was never part of the dispute. You and some other people have made claim that you need a "bigger" gun just in case your marginal. BS. A marginal shot with a mag is the same as a marginal shot with a standard. Period. Don't believe me, ask a PH or professional guide. Heck, ask me, I've seen it dozens of times.

Oh, and a 7mm Rem Mag in the same rifle does produce more recoil, muzzle blast, and muzzle lift than an '06 which are all contributors to shooter discomfort and a flinch.

As for the .338's, FYI, a rem 338 win, is a remington rifle in .338 win MAG

Looks like you are working on your logic, but don't tell me what my name stands for. FYI, you're experience is still showing. Notice that all the old timers with a couple dozen elk under their belt are still talking about how the 7-08 will do it fine, and the magnumitis infected and eastern dreamers are still talking about how you need a .329 Legsmasher.

And the truck comment was sarcastic, not immature. If you need paper ballistics to make you happy, Kenworths are cheap right now.

Done wasting my time, though this was fun, I'll just go work on some loads for my "marginal" .284 Winchester.

 

[iskubits]

It is a bit odd to see "big 7" compared to 7-08. 7mm RM will get pretty much any game in Canada at 400 yards (I know for sure it will get a black bear )
Also, it all depends on the shooter - if you know what you are doing, you can kill an Elk from .22 LR (probably not at 400 yards).

Any caliber for the 3 you mentioned will do - 7RM will do it better

 

[rem338win]

If your question is DO I need a bigger gun?
Then the answer is no.
But if I had a bigger gun available I felt comfortable with then I would use it.
Like I said, the original question specified "average hunter" I may only be an averge hunter but I reload enough to know ballistics & shoot enough to be slightly better than average. IMHO

By your own posts, how many elk have you killed again? If I need bass advise, I'll look someone up from Ontario........................................

 

[kimberman]

Ok, I now this isn't an easy subject so I'll go slow. Animals die when you put a hole through their very important stuff (ie, heart, lungs, liver, spine, brain). A 7mm bullet is a 7mm bullet and is limited by starting out at 7mm. A 140gr 7mm bullet at 2900fps vs a 7mm bullet at 3200fps amounts to about 4" of drop difference at 400yds with the same 100yd point of impact. At 400yds they will both penetrate broadside thorugh an elk as the velocity difference is about the same at 100yds (2050fps vs 2375fps). That means there will be a hole through both sides spitting blood. Does it sound like the magnum did any better? No, it didn't.

And how does flatter shooting mean easier adjustment for your point of aim? If your 7mm Mag drops 14" at 400yds you need to know that. If your 7-08 drops 19" you need to know that. But hey I am sure all the magnum you have shot shoot like a "laser" out to 500yds so you needn't worry

As for practicing, equipment, and getting used to your gun; of course. That was never part of the dispute. You and some other people have made claim that you need a "bigger" gun just in case your marginal. BS. A marginal shot with a mag is the same as a marginal shot with a standard. Period. Don't believe me, ask a PH or professional guide. Heck, ask me, I've seen it dozens of times.

Oh, and a 7mm Rem Mag in the same rifle does produce more recoil, muzzle blast, and muzzle lift than an '06 which are all contributors to shooter discomfort and a flinch.



Looks like you are working on your logic, but don't tell me what my name stands for. FYI, you're experience is still showing. Notice that all the old timers with a couple dozen elk under their belt are still talking about how the 7-08 will do it fine, and the magnumitis infected and eastern dreamers are still talking about how you need a .329 Legsmasher.

And the truck comment was sarcastic, not immature. If you need paper ballistics to make you happy, Kenworths are cheap right now.

Done wasting my time, though this was fun, I'll just go work on some loads for my "marginal" .284 Winchester.

Well, all i can hope for is that one day I will be as smart and wise as yourself. I'll try to understand that there is only one way to do things and every other way is wrong. New things are bad and old things... well they're bad too I guess, unless I use one then it's good.

Yes the b.s. was fun, truth be told, I used 6.5x55 on deer a couple years ago, just tryin' to get your panties in a knot Us damn wippersnappers don't know a damn thing eh? One thing you did do right is get a .284, dandy little cartridge in it's own right. 53gr imr 4350 on top of 139gr hornady's shoot well in mine. I will be working up loads for my .280ai, and .30gibbs, they're not a dreaded magnum, but pretty close.

Yes Kenworths are resonable now, I own two of them. I won't be using them for elk hunting.

 

[Camp Cook]

your answer is that you might screw up, so cure it with horsepower......

nope not at all saying the margin of error maybe less with a bigger bullet and there is nothing wrong with having more horse power.

my answer is don't screw up, and/or dont' take marginal shots, since a bad hit from a 7-08, 280 or 7rm is still going to be a bad hit.

i agree thus my comments but how do you not screw up remember Murphy is always near when you least expect it

what is your method to determine that a cartridge is "marginal?"

30 years experience...

 

[Gatehouse]

what is your method to determine that a cartridge is "marginal?"

30 years experience...

Quite the dodge of the question....

 

[Camp Cook]

Actually no it wasn't.

How long have you done what you do for a living?

Are you good at it, do you know a few things more that the average guy because you have done it for so long?

I'm thinking yes...

Experience teaches us a lot if we decide to learn from those experiences.

 

[kimberman]

Funny how these 7mm threads get everybody's panties in a bunch. From now on we should call them .284's As long as this forum exists, as long as we have firearms, and as long as we hunt, there will be no right answer. None of you guys are right, but none of you guys are wrong.... totally. What is wrong is the emotionally charged attacks that have nothing to do with the question to begin with. You want to shoot elk with a .260rem, go do it. That doesn't mean it's right for me to do it. I want to shoot him with a .375 rum.... fine. That doesn't make it right for you. I'm going to go have a beer now, I'll be much more intelligent in a few hours.

 

[sealhunter]

Ya know when experience sucks? When you've been doing something wrong for 30 years and think your experienced,...

or..

You think because you are experienced you have nothing to learn...

or

Because you have been doing something "your" way for many years, you assume it's the right way, or the only way...

or..