I didn't think I was a n00b until I moved to Ontario

1VP25mm

1VP25mm

Member
Location
Kingston On
Salutations,

I've been lurking around for a while and as I won't be going to the range for a while (for reasons detailed below) I figured I'd say hi and perhaps spend some time on here.

I was under the, apparently mistaken, impression that I had a clue about firearms. Qualified on some pretty cool guns, urban ops instructor, fired a few rounds on the two way range. Somehow I got the impression I had developed a modicum of competence.

Then I moved to Ontario and learned that in fact I'm a hazard to myself and others and certainly can't be trusted to handle a WMD on the scale of a .22 revolver until I receive a full half day's training at my local range. I can't imagine how I've managed to muddle through so far without hurting myself.

In all seriousness though I'm beginning to lose it over the fact that I can't even shoot my .22 AR as I was out of province during the one course my club has run in the last 5 months or so. Not that I blame them, it's the laws in this province that are absurd.

Rant over.

In any case I'm sure most of you can infer my background from my screen name and my location from my preceding s**t fit. Looking forward to hopefully getting/sharing some good information around here.

Cheers
 
You may be qualified,the guy beside you might be a jack ass.It might be nice to find this out before hand if possible.m2c
 
Reality is an annoying itch to Ontario politicians. You should write a letter to your MP/newspaper saying as much. Tell them your background too.

Don't forget to join the NFA and/or CSSA.

Welcome aboard! :D
 
WTF great post !
He said he needed to take a 1/2 day course at his range before he could shoot at the club.

That is sop at most clubs that are legitimate.

To shoot any weapon you need to have the club range officer walk you through the club and grounds as part of there safety procedure.(on joining)

Write the newspaper tell them how good you are??? WTF

Its a 1/2 day at the club.
Everyone takes it, do the 1/2 day and shoot all you want.

It sometimes weeds out the people you don't want in the club,which might have been a danger to other shooters.
 
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Should have been a bit clearer, I've had the orientation so shooting my non-restricted stuff is good to go. No problem with that whatsoever, in fact I think it's a good idea as all ranges have their quirks to become familiar with. My issue now is with the handgun safety course which is somehow relevant in the minds of Ontario politicians to my ability to safely operate an AR.

I'm trying not to make a big deal out of the been there done that issue and be a #### about it. I don't think I'm a rock star or deserve special treatment; it's more a case of the entire system being flawed.
 
1VP25mm said:
My issue now is with the handgun safety course which is somehow relevant in the minds of Ontario politicians to my ability to safely operate an AR.
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I know of no such law in Ontario, sounds like its your club, some clubs and club executives like to act like Base RSM's and make up rules on top of rules because they can. Where in Ontario are you?
 
And remember, once you're done and you're looking at all the stupid #### people around you are doing, that they too did that 1/2 day course... and are still morons.

I corrected my "instructor" a half dozen times when I did mine. But remember who it's geared towards...

Welcome aboard brother.. (What's a 1VP gunner doing behind RCR lines? Where are you posted now?)
 
I joined one club and waited over a year before I could take their handgun safety course. I called after 6 months and was told by the club instructor that he didn't know who I was and "maybe I should get out to shoot skeet on Sunday afternoons to get to know him"......
Anyways I have since left that club and joined one near kitchener, I joined in December took my safety course in January, great bunch of guys and we ended up having a lot of fun during that course, depends on the club I guess in Ontario.
 
(What's a 1VP gunner doing behind RCR lines? Where are you posted now?)
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Spying :), Kingston Just when I thought I was out, THEY PULL ME BACK IN!

I know of no such law in Ontario, sounds like its your club, some clubs and club executives like to act like Base RSM's and make up rules on top of rules because they can. Where in Ontario are you?
Click to expand...

From eveything I have read the only way to get an ATT in Ontario is to have the club submit your request which they will not do until you have completed the handgun safety course. Once again, I don't blame the club, the members have outside lives and can't be expected to constantly run courses on their own time. As I said this is the case everywhere I have checked but if you were able to bypass it Kudos.
 
The handgun safety course is a CFO requirement in Ontario even if you've taken it previously and already have an active ATT. Some clubs take this beyond the minimum with extended probation periods, etc. but often have a shortened process for current ATT holders.

There is always some self-professed "high speed, low-drag" operator who doesn't think the requiement should apply to them. We see them all the time. They will claim they were/are LEO, SF, JTF2, SAS, Spetnaz, NSG, GIS, GSG9 and know more about guns than any living person, should be given a pass on the test and become angry when they aren't given one.

Sorry it doesn't work that way. If you've done all those qualifications and are just soooo damn good then you won't mind proving it to the membership. Nothing personal but we don't take just anyone's word at face value.
 
I think I was pretty explicit when I said I wasn't looking for any special treatment or exemption.

I'm trying not to make a big deal out of the been there done that issue and be a #### about it. I don't think I'm a rock star or deserve special treatment; it's more a case of the entire system being flawed.
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It is certainly the club's perogative to assess any new member, in fact it is only responsible to do so to some degree


What I do take issue with is the Ontario CFO imposing restrictions above and beyond those required by law and then putting the onus on the volunteer members of the club to do the leg work by running these courses.
 
"...somehow relevant..." Restricted is restricted. Same licence for a handgun as it is for a restricted rifle. No previous experience, CF or otherwise, matters. Not even 30 plus years of owning and shooting handguns, being a current or former CF RSO, Club RSO, being a current or former dealer's carry permit holder or anything else.
"...it's the laws in this province..." Policy, not law. The Ontario CFPO decided that a club level safety course is required to shoot anything. No previous experience, CF or otherwise, matters with this either.
 
CROWCA said:
WTF great post !
He said he needed to take a 1/2 day course at his range before he could shoot at the club.

That is sop at most clubs that are legitimate.

To shoot any weapon you need to have the club range officer walk you through the club and grounds as part of there safety procedure.(on joining)

Write the newspaper tell them how good you are??? WTF

Its a 1/2 day at the club.
Everyone takes it, do the 1/2 day and shoot all you want.

It sometimes weeds out the people you don't want in the club,which might have been a danger to other shooters.
Click to expand...

its not 'sop' its 'soop'. standard ONTARIO operating proceedure, no one else does this, well ok...maybe quebec. The rest of the country realizes that you already took a safety course when you decided to get licenced, which includes a section on range safety.
 
gallen270 said:
The rest of the country realizes that you already took a safety course when you decided to get licenced, which includes a section on range safety.
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And you can go through all of that without ever having fired a shot yourself, cleared a malfunction or been on a live firing line with someone shooting beside you.

I have been a member of four Ontario handgun clubs and took the course more than once even before the CFO required it. I've also shot as a guest at a dozen others clubs and found no two ranges had precisely the same rules. An orientation gives the new shooter a chance to learn how procedures might be different than what he knew previously and to give the club exec a chance to check him or her out personally. If that offends your sense of self importance I'd rather not share the line with you.
 
As I said, clubs have every right to assess the ability of new members and if someone thinks they're too cool for school in that regard then the club can simply refuse entry to that individual.

I think what Gallen270 is trying to say, and I certainly agree, is that there is a considerable disconnect between the ATT process in Ontario and the rest of the country.
 
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