1911 tests - enough to make TDC's head explode.

Rich LPS said:
"I've seen most 1911 users draw from the holster, flinch, then realize they failed to drop the thumb safety."

TDC, from the above statement, I think you're experience with 1911 shooters is rather limited. It again brings into question your experience with firearms in general.

So many people on the internet, so many "experts", most have never carried a gun for a living (which does not make you an expert either) and have no clue.

TDC, when are you heading over to Israel to school the IDF on the Tavor? Maybe Larry Vickers could pick up some pointers from you on the deficienies of the 1911 pistol?

(For the record I'm not a big fan of 1911's.)

Rich
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Are you still upset about the whole "the AR platform would be better if you could select safe with the hammer down" discussion? Its ok Rich, you don't have to wear a uniform to be informed on tactics or plain common sense.

I'm not quite sure where you're going with your post? Are you saying I'm talking sh*t or are you upset because you can't dispute the points I've made regarding the 1911 and the Tavor(not to mention the AR safety issue) and feel obligated to belittle me as a response?

MLP,
You're 100% correct, Glocks fail as do all mechanical devices. Glocks fail at a lesser rate than other firearms. That being said, when it does fail you solve the issue whether that be with an IA, RA, or replacing the part/gun. The difference between Glocks and 1911's come down to design. The 1911 incorporates several "features" that are not desirable and/or necessary. The simplicity of the Glock and its overall design make it the most ideal pistol for the role it was intended. Exposed hammers, single stack mags, positive safeties and all metal construction are not necessary in a combat pistol. Nor are they any significant benefit over the modern alternatives. Reliability aside, the 1911 is still:

over weight
overly complex(number of parts)
excessive recoiling(in the original 45 ACP)
low capacity
temper mental maintenance queen

TDC
 
Rather then spend all the time arguing, i think both are excellent firearms. Its a matter of prefrance, i prefer the 1911.
To each's own.
 
TDC = Very limited experience = no credibility when speaking about firearms and Tactics.

When TDC coments on firearms and Tactics readers should know that he is speaking from a very limited perspective and judge accordingly.

Comments like "Most 1911 Shooters...leaving the safety on...ect.ect." prove time and time again TDC is just a recreational shooter that dreams of being a commando or SWAT member or Operator, whatever.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings but your vast knowledge, although entertaining, gets old after a while. Go back to playing video games or dressing up at the range or whatever you do.

Rich
 
I think the purpose of discussion and a forum is to attack the arguments, not the person.
If you can't stick to the argument or debate the issue, perhaps you should state your experience before criticizing someone else's?
 
I love reading TDC's posts. Not that I agree with him all the time. He defenetly calls it as he sees it. He is a tried and true keyboard hero.
 
Rich LPS said:
TDC = Very limited experience = no credibility when speaking about firearms and Tactics.

When TDC coments on firearms and Tactics readers should know that he is speaking from a very limited perspective and judge accordingly.

Comments like "Most 1911 Shooters...leaving the safety on...ect.ect." prove time and time again TDC is just a recreational shooter that dreams of being a commando or SWAT member or Operator, whatever.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings but your vast knowledge, although entertaining, gets old after a while. Go back to playing video games or dressing up at the range or whatever you do.

Rich
Click to expand...

Rich,

Are you going to debate the information I've posted or continue with ad hominem attacks??

TDC
 
It is refreshing to see someone who can write sentences.... and who's argument for everything isn't "Troll" or "Your AR isn't working because you are a Liberal"
 
TDC said:
Rich,

Are you going to debate the information I've posted or continue with ad hominem attacks??

TDC
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I don't think he responds to people that are "just a recreational shooter".

He is too busy stopping Lex Luthor and his henchmen.
 
yyyyy said:
I don't think he responds to people that are "just a recreational shooter".

He is too busy stopping Lex Luthor and his henchmen.
Click to expand...

Perhaps when he's finished smashing heads he could spare a moment and answer the common folk...You know, the same ones he protects.

TDC
 
I started out by commenting on TDC statement regarding "Most 1911 Shooters" that he has seen. My point is that TDC's experience is very limited if he is seeing "Most 1911 Shooters" leaving their safety's on.
TDC likes to speak as if he has vast knowledge and experience but when he makes statements like this it exposes him as having very limited experience.

Rich
 
The whole Glock VS 1911 debate is different from the Remington 700 VS Savage 110 debates for one BIG reason.

Glock makes ALL Glocks. They know what they are doing, because they have been doing it for a long time.

1911's are made by everyone from Kimber to Norinco.

So that being said if I only had $650 bucks for a handgun I can get:
1. Glock 17, 22 etc with 2x 10 round mags, case, lock, brush and loader that shoots out of the box 100%.
2. Norc 1911 with 2x 7 round mags that needs hours for work, filing, polishing and still may not shoot 100%, but it was only $400
3. Para Ordinance or Springfield 1911 with all the accessories, but still needs filing, polishing and some work to get them to shoot like most Glocks.

Now that being said if I have $1500 I can get a Kimber of STI 1911 and then I have a nicer gun, but at 2x the cash.

Long story short, if money is not an issue you can make a nice gun outta a 1911, otherwise dollar for dollar, you get more outta Glock. IMO.
 
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the leaving the safety on as well as the flinch is nothing more than poor or not enough TRAINING- properly trained , the safety comes off as the piece comes up, and the trigger starts its rearward movement as soon as the sights are on the target- it's all one swift sure movement- we did thousands of hours on dry drills drawing from the flap holster and engaging the target under extremely close supervision in the military- esp if you were the m60 gunner and the 1911 was your secondary- that's also why i reject any "sticky" mag in my shtf rig
 
most 1911 shooter he sees left safety on = its likey that happened at public range and you know how highly skilled shooters are in public range! wheel last week i worked at an IPSC match, out of 50 different skill level shooters that shot standard in 1911 variant , i havent seen a single shooter fail to disengage the safety. so it's either you have limited experience with some what experienced shooters or you saw couple day pass non gun owner forgot to disengage their safety at a public range with their buddies gun.


[youtube]am-Qdx6vky0[/youtube]
 
" you know how highly skilled shooters are in public range"

I think that was one of TDC's points... Yes, a tuned 1911 run's amazingly and is a beauty to shoot. But it takes tons of hours, tuning, smithing, etc to get there.

That is why the glock's integral safeties, ease of operation, and reliability out of the box makes it the choice of operators, police, and mil - and a fine choice for a new shooter.


There was also someone that posted here (I think) that said the 1911 caused more friendly fire injuries than enemies killed in combat. Decocking accidents.

Heck yah, a Nighthawk or Wilson 1911 is way cooler, more accurate, etc.... But not for 600 bucks.
 
RUSTSPOT said:
most 1911 shooter he sees left safety on = its likey that happened at public range and you know how highly skilled shooters are in public range! wheel last week i worked at an IPSC match, out of 50 different skill level shooters that shot standard in 1911 variant , i havent seen a single shooter fail to disengage the safety. so it's either you have limited experience with some what experienced shooters or you saw couple day pass non gun owner forgot to disengage their safety at a public range with their buddies gun.


[youtube]am-Qdx6vky0[/youtube]
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He is the only one experienced enough to handle a gun.
 
YOU NEVER DE-#### A 1911- didn't they drill that into you ?- it's either discharge at target or SAFETY BACK ON- if you can't re-engage the safety that's what the clearing barrels are for
 
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t-star said:
YOU NEVER DE-#### A 1911- didn't they drill that into you ?- it's either discharge at target or SAFETY BACK ON- if you can't re-engage the safety that's what the clearing barrels are for
Click to expand...

Again... That's my point.

It goes back to the above quote:

" you know how highly skilled shooters are in public range"
 
yyyyy said:
" you know how highly skilled shooters are in public range"

I think that was one of TDC's points... Yes, a tuned 1911 run's amazingly and is a beauty to shoot. But it takes tons of hours, tuning, smithing, etc to get there.

That is why the glock's integral safeties, ease of operation, and reliability out of the box makes it the choice of operators, police, and mil - and a fine choice for a new shooter.


There was also someone that posted here (I think) that said the 1911 caused more friendly fire injuries than enemies killed in combat. Decocking accidents.

Heck yah, a Nighthawk or Wilson 1911 is way cooler, more accurate, etc.... But not for 600 bucks.
Click to expand...

actually, i'll disagree with you there- most of the 1911s i've run across are pretty good guns right out of the box- the troubles come when the owner/shooter tries to "finesse" the gun into something he's fired that he PERCIEVES to be better- i've got a remmy 1943 issue that's never had anything done to it save a pair of pachmyrs, and it shoots right along with my tricked out 1911 series 70- and that's had everything but a comp barrel installed save a comp barrel-
 
I have heard that older "looser" models do run better than ones made with tighter modern tolerances. But it would be interesting to do a test out of the box with 3 polymer pistols 3 cheap 1911's, and 3 high end 1911's or similar with new shooters and experienced shooters.

I am thinking of a TV /internet show to explore these arguments because even the people who flame us for these types of discussions would watch and armchair QB the whole thing... hehe.
 
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