Holster certification

[Onagoth]

Wow, I was always of the opinion that a holster cert like BB, IDPA, CPD, or whatever was to ensure safe shooting amongst an action sport. To this end, I don't understand why a particular discipline would exclude potential members who are qualified under a different certification.

IMO, the rules can be learned outside of a holster certification course, either through shooting a match as a provisional/trainee or reading the manual. Safety is safety, doesn't matter if your IPSC or IPDA, and any certification should fulfill that requirement.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[bersmith]

Welcome to the politics of action shooting. Just nod your head and don't get dragged into a conversation. There are shooters that are very passionate about their brand of shooting.
All parties have a point and respect each other is the closest we will ever get to all being on the same page and shooting as a large group.
I have taken the black badge course and now teach the CDP course. Except for timing issues on the course it all boils down to the instructor and what can be taught effectively. All the courses have good and bad points and we all want safe shooters in the end.

 

[Onagoth]

...is the closest we will ever get to all being on the same page and shooting as a large group.

Thats sad.

 

[tritium]

Hey,

I shoot both IPSC and IDPA and I am a member of IPSC Ontario, USPSA and IDPA. I enjoy them all and I like the folks involved in all shooting sports (yup, skeet, trap, PPC, CFSAC, etc).

I also teach the Black Badge course.

While I don't agree with all of the rules of any of these organizations, I understand the need for these rules. I also don't agree with all that is taught on the BB course but I see value in the course and I see value in holster training. The value is that training produces safer and better shooters.

In the current political environment in Canada, we cannot afford any careless or stupid accidents that result from a lack of training/attention to detail. The antis are searching for ANY way to shut us down completely.

The best part of any of our Action shooting sports (with the exception of PPC - no, I'm not slaggin' the PPC guys here) is that all of the action shooting sports require 1 on 1 range officer to shooter contact during the course of fire. Can't get much safer than that.

I believe that IDPA/CDPA/ODPA is going through many of the same growing pains that we had with IPSC/CPSA - it's a battle of personalities and organizational hurdles. It will sort itself out eventually.

No single shooting sport is better than any other but I think we can all agree that they all require some form of orientation/training to keep them safe and on track.

So quit bickering - you're comparing apples to apples... oh and on that note, I've had people contact me via PM to ask me what the issues within any particular organization are and if there are problems in action shooting... that tells me that ptoetnially new shooters might be turned off by internet whining and may elect not to shoot in any organized sport.

'Nuff said?

 

[Freedom Ventures]

If you are litteraly IPSC then ok you are, but you are not, you are participants in and members in the league,

I'd have thought you'd have figured this out by now.
Quigley and I ARE IPSC Canada.
I'm the President of it; an 1800 person organization - and he's the board representative of the biggest portion.
If you call IPSC Canada something, you're calling us it.

Why does IPSC not accept one of the Defensive Pistol holster courses, answer me that?

Well, first, and most importantly - none of them ever asked - including - you. If they had, we'd look at the program and determine if it gave the level of training that we consider sufficient. In so much as sufficient, it had better sit at our standards that have ensured our 100% gun-accident free record at sanctioned events.

Defensive Pistol is not organized in this country, you're a bunch of guys who can't even get together under one umbrella. It's quaint that you think that that whatever version of it you're involved in compares with ours, but it simply doesn't.

We are 30+ years old, successful and still growing. We are doing the same thing in 9 provinces, we are offering hundreds of sanctioned competitions, hundreds of training courses, provincial championships, and a national event that leaves every other shooting discipline in the dust. We have a national range officer system with hundreds of members, reading from the same rule book that 84 other countries are using; and we are part of a world organization, and regularly send 30+ people to compete with another 1000 in the World Championships.

Yeah, this comes off as arrogance, and I really don't care - we are proud of what we built and I won't have some pissant taking pot shots at it anymore. We're the Alpha dog in the pack and you want to challenge us - I get it, but understand that you're just the Chihuahua annoying a Mastiff.

Your various DPAs are probably a lot of fun for each and every one of its few participants. Great for them. Happy to see new people take up shooting in any form, but - for once - can you actually try to promote your game without slagging ours? Remember, you started this -

+1, it is a little hypocritical to allow IPSC into Defensive Pistol but not visa versa but it has always been this way and I am sure it will stay this way.

Well, I'm finishing it. Leave us alone, do your own thing and you won't have any hassle from me.

JohnnyBender; I'm sorry to have hijacked your thread. Go try each and every form of pistol shooting you can find. Guaranteed, you'll love most of them.

 

[hedgehog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism

 

[Steve David]

I'd have thought you'd have figured this out by now.
Quigley and I ARE IPSC Canada.
I'm the President of it; an 1800 person organization - and he's the board representative of the biggest portion.
If you call IPSC Canada something, you're calling us it.

I was not trying to figure out who you are, nor do I care. I do not know you from Adam, nor do I want to and once again I am not calling you a hypocrite, so get off your high horse now and stop turning this into something it was not meant to be.

Well, first, and most importantly - none of them ever asked - including - you. If they had, we'd look at the program and determine if it gave the level of training that we consider sufficient. In so much as sufficient, it had better sit at our standards that have ensured our 100% gun-accident free record at sanctioned events.

Ok, got it.

Defensive Pistol is not organized in this country, you're a bunch of guys who can't even get together under one umbrella. It's quaint that you think that that whatever version of it you're involved in compares with ours, but it simply doesn't.

If you say so.....!

We are 30+ years old, successful and still growing. We are doing the same thing in 9 provinces, we are offering hundreds of sanctioned competitions, hundreds of training courses, provincial championships, and a national event that leaves every other shooting discipline in the dust. We have a national range officer system with hundreds of members, reading from the same rule book that 84 other countries are using; and we are part of a world organization, and regularly send 30+ people to compete with another 1000 in the World Championships.

Great, I hope it gets bigger....!

Yeah, this comes off as arrogance, and I really don't care - we are proud of what we built and I won't have some pissant taking pot shots at it anymore. We're the Alpha dog in the pack and you want to challenge us - I get it, but understand that you're just the Chihuahua annoying a Mastiff.

THIS PARAGRAPH SAYS IT ALL.......!

Your various DPAs are probably a lot of fun for each and every one of its few participants. Great for them. Happy to see new people take up shooting in any form, but - for once - can you actually try to promote your game without slagging ours? Remember, you started this -

I made a comment about a rule and then asked a question, I "slagged" no one nor was it meant too, it is up to you if you want to take it that personal. Quigley already and very politely answer the question for me and I very much thank him for that, but you had to bring in your "king of the mountain attitude" in, but that's ok, I understand now.

Well, I'm finishing it. Leave us alone, do your own thing and you won't have any hassle from me.

More then happy too, I would not want you to hassle us anymore.

By the way, thanks for clearing all that up, you have made a several things pretty clear and I very much appreciate that.

 

[Canuck44]

Defensive Pistol is not organized in this country, you're a bunch of guys who can't even get together under one umbrella.
QUOTE]

Sean IDPA has been around since 1995 created when IPSC/USPSA at the time did not want to start what is now Production Division. IDPA is entrenched and organized in Canada with shooters in seven provinces and two territories and is growing. There are over 300 shooters shooting IDPA in Canada with most of this growth coming in the last two years. We expect to have over 500 registered shooters by year end. You might want to reflect on the above statement.

I have no idea what the Ontario based *DPA groups shoot nor do I care. They are comfortable doing what they are doing and so be it. If at some point they wish to affiliate with IDPA they will be welcome. Two of the clubs who have shot some type of *DPA have recently affiliated and more will be annouced over the summer.

The BB is a pre-requirement now to become a member of IPSC. Leave it at that. While the course has a strong safety componenet and drills to practice shooting on the move, doing reloads on the move etc it also covers the rules of IPSC as it should. It is difficult to play any game withouot understanding the how the game is played. This is the primary reason why I have never contacted you with a suggestion for reciprocity regarding the IDPA Classified Shooters and IPSC in Canada. Frankly, there has been no ground swell of folks asking me to approach your organization to do so either.

"It's quaint that you think that that whatever version of it you're involved in compares with ours, but it simply doesn't. "

No argument there Sean, there is no comparison. Different rules, different targets, different structure, different game. Different philosophy.

IPSC is the largest action shooting sport in Canada to be sure and likely will continue to be for sometime. Good Shooting.

Take Care

Bob Bonenfant
IDPA Area Coordinator - Canada

 

[CaptV]

I'd have thought you'd have figured this out by now.
Quigley and I ARE IPSC Canada.

Well, I'm not IPSC Canada, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night...

 

[Westicle]

I'd have thought you'd have figured this out by now.
Quigley and I ARE IPSC Canada.
I'm the President of it; an 1800 person organization - and he's the board representative of the biggest portion.
If you call IPSC Canada something, you're calling us it.

Well, I'm finishing it. Leave us alone, do your own thing and you won't have any hassle from me.

"The whole is more than the sum of its parts"
Aristotle 320 bc

Just because your the "president" does not make you "it".... if you quit tommorow IPSC in canada would continue just fine without you I am thinking.... no offence but your whole post reeked of everything that everybody hates aboot organized shooting sports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism

 

[Quigley]

"no offence but your whole post reeked of everything that everybody hates aboot organized shooting sports.

IPSC Canada is a victom of it's own success. We figured out a long time ago...the organisation won't survive without some..."organisation"

Like him or not...agree with him or not. Sean lays it on the table. He's not afraid to say what he thinks...or step on a few toes. He does what he was elected to do...run IPSC Canada.

Not to sound preachy...but if DPA takes off in Canada...and you start measuring memebers by the thousands...you'll figure it out too...

Love it or hate it...it's inevitable.

 

[Westicle]

I agree with you quigley, BUT he needs to work on his personality a bit I think, I am sure he puts in A LOT of volunteer time and such to make sure that his sport suceeds (sp?) and goes in the direction he, you and the membership want.... BUT to openly state in a "public" forum that "HE IS" IPSC in canada is a little "high and mighty".

don't you think..... ?? he is an elected member in an elected postion.... voted in because he attended the annual general meeting and had enough guys to support him, end of story, next election someone else could be voted in....

IDPA has only been taking off in the last 2 years seriously in canada as an organization, IPSC has over 30 years, so be it..... although I think alot of Bob, I know he is not "IDPA" in canada, if , god forbid, bob kicked the bucket tommorow I have no doubt that IDPA would continue in canada...... I expect the same could be said for IPSC if you and FV kicked it tommorow.

 

[gostick]

I am not sure why people get lured into these discussions with "Steve David JR"

A man convinced against his will,is of the same opinion still.

Steve won't change,so let him go on his merry way!

The fact that he always needs to compare IDPA to IPSC speaks volumes,people always compare things to the #1

 

[Quigley]

Well to be perfectly frank...if I had my choice to deal with people that lay it on the line...or people that never quite say what they mean (all ear whipering bull #### and reading between the lines) I'll let you guess my preference.

I agree with you quigley, BUT he needs to work on his personality a bit I think, I am sure he puts in A LOT of volunteer time and such to make sure that his sport suceeds (sp?) and goes in the direction he, you and the membership want.... BUT to openly state in a "public" forum that "HE IS" IPSC in canada is a little "high and mighty".

don't you think..... ?? he is an elected member in an elected postion.... voted in because he attended the annual general meeting and had enough guys to support him, end of story, next election someone else could be voted in....

IDPA has only been taking off in the last 2 years seriously in canada as an organization, IPSC has over 30 years, so be it..... although I think alot of Bob, I know he is not "IDPA" in canada, if , god forbid, bob kicked the bucket tommorow I have no doubt that IDPA would continue in canada...... I expect the same could be said for IPSC if you and FV kicked it tommorow.

 

[DMeNTED]

All I have to say is wow...

I just got my BB as I'm getting bored of just standing around blasting at targets - and because from what I've seen IPSC is pretty active in my neck of the woods. That and I know that other pistol sports (like IDPA/etc.) tend to recognize the BB course and I don't feel like taking 20 different "safety" courses....

That being said - if some of the attitudes in here is what I should expect from competitors/organizers then I can't see sticking around... or joining in on any other sport.

The instructors and all the ROs on my course were great - I found out later the extremely helpful RO giving me tips on the 2nd day was the Ladies Open Champion - and none of them had the goofy attitude some people in this thread are exhibiting.

Maybe you guys should spend less time ####ting on each other and more time figuring out how to attract more people to ANY handgun sport... otherwise in a few years you'll all be standing around with your thumbs in your butts talking about how much better sport X was than Y back when we were allowed to shoot guns.

 

[Steve David]

I am not sure why people get lured into these discussions with "Steve David JR"

A man convinced against his will,is of the same opinion still.

Steve won't change,so let him go on his merry way!

The fact that he always needs to compare IDPA to IPSC speaks volumes,people always compare things to the #1

You are right, nope I will never change....! I will continue to run IDPA matches that shooters like at our club, and continue to promote all of the shooting sports in our holster classes, and continue to welcome all holster qualified shooters to have fun with us. Do I really need to change?

 

[Jim S]

To get back on point, i have a question for Steve. How does one PROVE he or she is holster qualified?? Is there a proficentcy(SP) card that one places in their wallet, or is an IDPA Membership card sufficent, since I am a Member of IDPA, but NEVER took, saw, or heard of a Holster Qualification Course here in Alberta for IDPA??

 

[Canuck44]

Jim your card is all you need.

Your Classification will be a matter of record.

Mass I know has run a variant of the New Shooters Orientation Course for new shooters interested in IDPA.

Take Care

Bob

 

[JasonYuke]

Jee wizz this post makes me want to come out and join all the leagues, sure seems like a good time!

Well as long as we are all on the same page! that is as gun owners! that is gun owners for now.

What will ever we talk about when we start shooting with dart guns, and have to become Billy Stick qualified after the next election?

 

[Onagoth]

Quigley and I ARE IPSC Canada.

THat comment right there was probably the biggest slap in the face to all IPSC members everywhere.