Are outfitters just not getting it?

$4000 thats a lot a :D
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Camp Cook said:
Hey LF here is a way you can get a paid hunt... :)

I've met up with a few guide/outfitters lately that are desperate for quality guides for example I was talking to one that wanted me to guide mountain goats for him in northern BC.

He offered to fly us into a remote cabin pay me $250 cash per day and each hunt would be 5-6 days long he would also supply a skinner/cook and after I got the client a goat I could also go after a goat and I would have all hunting season to pick the one I wanted.

D*mn now that I think of it why did I say no...

Ok I know why I have a wife and a 2 year old son and a life... :D
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Hmmm... I don't have a wife or kids. Or even a dog. :)
 
laughingfool said:
Firstly I dont recall mentioning free. Secondly, your absolutely right about not being obligated to do jack for me or anybody. But when they wont price adjust to accomodate todays economic environment yet 8itch about their booking level as compared to other years,it begs the question. Are they A)greedy with a gov safety net,or B) dense as pig muck?
As for the gentleman? that mentioned that the prices dropped were already to high I would differ sir. The reason I had the people come to me in the first place was because they knew its the only place they would get told to pluck off. I lowered my price a bit for many reasons
a) They would cobble it together which would cost more to do later
b) " " " " " " " then make it a nightmare for me
c) So I got to work an extra few hours a week for the same coin. its better than no coin

When I used to work for a company they sent me north for assignment. This was in the early 90's (another smaller recession for those of you who were born by then:p) They paid for a hotel room. I got calling around to places who rented cabins on the water. My brain wave was simple, bring the wife. She walks the beaches while I'm at work,GREAT! Not going to happen though, everybody was about 20-25% more than the amount I got for hotel and frankly I just didnt have it to cough up. Fellow at work suggested a place,I called, same scenario. The woman said hold on you can come for that price. I said ya but I'm short and cant come up with the difference. She said hey man what your companies paying isnt my usual but its more than the zero I got booked for that cabin now. I still know Mary to this day although she's since taken on another business interest.If she touches it it turns to gold. As has been said earlier I to can afford to go on a guided hunt. Now thats The story of me and the story of another business owner I know. Now tell me how the newfs way of handling economic down turns is working for them? Never mind, I know how. Their holding their heads high. Good thing cause the water's about nostrel deep
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Not quite sure why you keep bringing up the "gov't safety net" issue, it's non-existent. Self-employed can't collect EI(not yet anyway) and there are no subsidies.

Evidently, the NL moose outfitters are not hurting enough to drop their prices.

I know of a few BC outfitters who've slashed their prices for moose and other species, but you still won't get a bull moose hunt for $4K there or anywhere else besides NL, for that matter.
$3700 for a fully guided moose hunt is not overpriced. That's about the bottom rate for whitetail in MB,AB and SK.

If you want to save money, here's some advice: Stay home and stay single! :D
 
bearkilr said:
Not quite sure why you keep bringing up the "gov't safety net" issue, it's non-existent. Self-employed can't collect EI(not yet anyway) and there are no subsidies. Evidently, the NL moose outfitters are not hurting enough to drop their prices. I know of a few BC outfitters who've slashed their prices for moose and other species, but you still won't get a bull moose hunt for $4K there or anywhere else besides NL, for that matter.
$3700 for a fully guided moose hunt is not overpriced. That's about the bottom rate for whitetail in MB,AB and SK. If you want to save money, here's some advice: Stay home and stay single! :D
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Well put in all respects. :cool:
 
laughing fool

Did I miss something in one of your other post , you mentioned not getting any US business ? No location on your thread Are you an american? Each outfitter is given a certain area to hunt, He has moose to harvest in his area the same has a farmer as animals on his farm. What makes him a great outfitter is the quality of animals taken , would you sell your prise stock short , just to make a quick buck? In the end you would be out of business , the harder times get the more expenses goes up , guess our canadian dollar is too high eh? it's not fun paying dollar , when the shoe is on the other foot!
 
When a business, be it an outfitter, auto repair shop, contractor, etc.etc. have to slash prices to compete or exist the first thing to suffer will be the quality of their trade. Bottom line corners get cut, eventually multiplying the number of dissatisfied customers and the business only wears the harm that was self inflicted. Everybody wants a deal it's only natural but how many people are wiling to openly agree to reduced service to get that deal? Very few if any. Outfitters are entitled to make what ever amount the market will allow and if they can no longer profit (short term and long term) will simply find something else to do. Walmart discount attitude is creeping into every aspect of business these days and it's gonna force people out of employment.
 
newfie bullet said:
Did I miss something in one of your other post , you mentioned not getting any US business ? No location on your thread Are you an american? Each outfitter is given a certain area to hunt, He has moose to harvest in his area the same has a farmer as animals on his farm. What makes him a great outfitter is the quality of animals taken , would you sell your prise stock short , just to make a quick buck? In the end you would be out of business , the harder times get the more expenses goes up , guess our canadian dollar is too high eh? it's not fun paying dollar , when the shoe is on the other foot!
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He was referring to outfitters not getting any US business due to economy, not himself.
Quality of animals doesn't make an outfitter great,BTW, effort and pleasing the client does. Fair chase hunting doesn't guarantee trophy quality.
 
i don't know much about the business of guiding, but i do know that there are the expenses that they have regardless, like a camp, vehicles, horses, what ever. let's call this expense A. then there are expenses associated with the actual hunt; like fuel, food, guide's pay, etc. this is expense B. then there is profit which is C.

if i am in business and can cover A for a time, then i am sure not going to give up C in order to cover B. i would either wait for times to get better or cut my loses and find something else to do.

if i was looking for a hunt, and the outfitter told me that the area hadn't been hunted in X number of years because of the slow economy (and i believed him) this would be a selling point.
 
Quality of the hunt , do make for a great hunt not always the trophy, i do agree .
I have a friend in the guiding business , only offers fly in hunts . Has his own a float plane and always sells his hunts yrs. in advance.
In the winter of 2007 I went to Harrisburg penyslvania ( sorry for the spellling) To a hunting show with him for a trip. every yr he takes pictures of the trophys taken on his hunts from the previous yr. I witnessed for my self people trying to book hunts for following yrs of other outfitters there having bigger trophy racks on there display , those racks that have been taken many yrs before. I would call that false advertising , but that was what they were offering.
One group of guys came up to us and wanted a combo hunt, moose and caribou he wouldn't book one for them said that the caribou hunting license wa going to be cut , they said another outfitter gave them a price so they would go with them so they paid there deposit. Last fall I ran into the same guys on the CN ferry , they told me that later that summer the outfitter contacted them and told them the caribou license was not available and they could only hunt moose, they wanted a refund for the hunt but was denied, they could get a refund for the caribou but not for the moose . you get what you pay for , the ones cutting prices are usually not the repetual ones . A guided moose hunt in Nfld is a trip of a lifetime , don't sell yourself short
 
laughingfool said:
Is it like the farmer who knows he's got a safety net in the gov so just will not set the president of a lower price?
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laughingfool said:
Now theres a question you shouldnt have asked. I weld and fabricate. Without crunching numbers I'd say the average individual has realized a savings of 20-30% in my shop in recent times. The lower savings are because the amount of material was high(I have no control on that).
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Hello Pot, nice to meet you. My name is Kettle.

So you think it is only welders who are effected by things out of their controll.
 
getting some good conversation anyway. I wonder the number of surplus tags will jump from last years 2800 to maybe 3500 this year to who knows and so and so. You get the point. I've had my two bits on this subject and they remain the same
 
I don't think $4000 is unreasonable...If a reputable outfitter in BC offered me a trophy moose hunt on horses in northern BC for $4000, I'd be all over that...Between horse rental and food/expenses, a trip like that is going to run about $1500-2000 anyway. I'd be happy to pay extra to have a wrangler catch my horse int he morning and someone cook me dinner and help load up my pack horse:D
 
It probably is simple economic reality.

Outfitters costs go up, not down. I wouldn't offer a service to break even. I'd rather have 2 hunters in camp and make a profit than 4 hunters in camp and lose money or break even. Hard to citicize an outfitter without knowing his economic reality.

$4000 seems like a reasonable price to me. Everything is expensive in NL. Food, fuel, taxation - 20-30% higher than out west.

If a person doesn't think a guided hunting trip is worth $4000, then he shouldn't pay it. The size of the outfitter's profit shouldn't be a factor.

Personally what I saw of welding shops during the boom is that they took full advantage of the economic windfall every time they had the opportunity. I don't recall outfittting services rising very much over the same period, so maybe they just didn't have the luxury of such large margins that they could afford to discount.
 
The bottom line on this post, IMHO is, do not expect someone else to finance your dreams. If you think the price is too much suck it up, don't piss and moan and whine about it. If it truly is too much the market will cause the price to come down, if it doesn't then I guess you are SOL. Christ, I learned that in life a long, long time ago.
 
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