what caliber for my new sheep rifle
- Thread starter Bigbear
- Start date
I bet it would be close to 50FPS.
I understand all that. 3 rifles side by side 1 custom 2 factory with the same load. At the most 20FPS between the Sako 75 & Gaillard. Only 50-60FPS less with the 23" factory which also is a Sako.
I have had 3 other 7mm's 2 Tikka's & a Browning (Dad's). All those rifles showed less than advertised results too.
I also had a 7mm STW at one time. Did not have a chrony at that time so all I can say about it is that it shot very well. It was my first Sako & I wish I never sold it. This was my first rifle purchase when I really got into shooting. I thought all new rifles would shoot that good, boy did I get my eyes opened fast.
With my original post I am just simply stating out of all of the 7mm's I've used owned etc, I have found less than advertised FPS from the Nosler manuals. I should also state this has been with Reloader powder for the most part. I cannot comment on other powders accurately as I have not used them as much. I have great success with accuracy out of Reloader powders and that's why I use it.
If you had a 7mm at your disposal I'd be interested to see what your results would be with a 160gr with 61.5gr of RL19
As for the 280 AI I can only comment on my buddies because he's the only one I know who has one. Again we found around 100FPS less than advertised. 24" Gaillard 1-9.
My measurements are 10 feet from the muzzle. Is that where everyone else is measuring from.
You took the words right out of my mouth. This is the point I was originally trying to make. We are going in circles here. Plus we are too far apart to put your Cooper beside my buddies Gaillard to compare.
I don't doubt your FPS results anyways.Actually,I have never loaded any 7mm with bullets heavier than 150gr,with 140gr being by far my favorite.All of my 7mmremmags(24" barrels) would average between 3200fps and 3300fps with a 140gr bullet.
Compare that to a maximum of just over 3300fps on the Nosler site for the fastest 140gr load.
And there is no barrel length specified for the data posted on the site,although the Nosler rifles in 280AI come with a 24" barrel.
My go to powder for the 7mmremmag has been R-22 but I have also used IMR-4350.
I have never found a need for a bullet heavier than 140gr for elk or moose,and at the time,all six of our party are using 140gr bullets with great success.
I have never found a need for a bullet heavier than 140gr for elk or moose,and at the time,all six of our party are using 140gr bullets with great success.
The only 7mm that I currently own is the 280AI.I have owned two 7mm-08s,four 7mmremmags, three 7mmstws and a 7mmImperial mag.And I would never be so bold as to quote an exact speed,since chronograph readings vary from shot to shot,and the velocities vary with temperature,humidity,bullet used,lot# of powder,brass etc.I have only chronographed the Accubond and TTSX in the 280AI,and I have not used either of these in any of my 7mmremmags.Giving an approximate range, I would estimate about 100fps difference between the two if you add 30-40fps or so to the 280AI to compensate for the 23" barrel.
No, there is no barrel length on the site is there
. But there is in the manuals, as is quoted directly. Nosler used a 26" barrel for their manual testing (like I said a fairly recognizable person from Nosler even confirmed that) which happens to be the same results they posted up on their site. Imagine that. And at what point in time was RL22 the only powder for the job? RL19, VV165, H4831, IMR7828 are all good powders not to be ignored either. I used the fastest loads from the manual in my quote. I figured you'd want it that way to be subjective. A more thorough examination of the two cartridges from the source you chose and another, the first being Nosler's ballistic lab was posted. I am so sorry that your one piece of data looks moot when all of the chips are on the table.
Further more Bell never wrote about killing Dalls, and especially not with a 280 AI. O'Connor did write about shooting Dalls with a .270 (and a 30-06). Bell wrote about killing elephants, and O'Connor didn't. This isn't hard to grasp. My statement was superfluous on that matter, and you still seem confused about the two original statements you made regarding the two cartridges, which doesn't surprise me.
And what earlier claim did I make that I made no attempt to prove? Bell subsistence hunted in the Yukon, which I envy him for, but made his name for himself shooting in AFRICA. My original statement may have left the opening that you seem to be flogging to death, but after that I made it clear that the difference between Bell and O'Connor was that O'Connor made his living writing about chasing sheep (amongst other things) and Bell made his living off of ivory. I see no argument left there.
The .270 and your 280 AI are so close in realistic comparison that from a purely logical stand point the 280 had no reason to exist after the creation of the .270. Nor did either of they as the 30-06 was created in 1903. Does that hurt you really bad or something? What evidence do you provide that contradicts my "regulations", and helped you come to your "reasonable conclusions"?
You always seem to find one fact that supports your position and hold to it like a piece of high ground in a rainstorm, even when you are shown mountains above you. Feel free to provide evidence contradictory to my own proving what you have stated. You seem to take yourself quite seriously, and I am still having fun with this. Cheers.
He's like a track horse, circles is all he can do.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
There aren't many sheep along the Hudson Bay coast, but when I do a Yukon Dall hunt I will simply pack the rifle I had built to hunt any big game anywhere on the planet. My .375 Ultra carbine will drive a 260 gr Accubond at 2900 resolving any issues concerning trajectory, and this thing has proven to be varmint rifle accurate.
That is what I would take myself, but if I was making a suggestion for anyone else's dedicated sheep rifle it would be a 7 or .300 magnum or a .270, .280, or a .30/06 with a factory chamber. The .25/06 shoots as flat as a laser, but I prefer a bullet with more mass and the 6.5 the smallest bore I am happy with for big game, despite the extraordinary performance a pal of mine has exhibited with his .25/06s. The only wildcat I would consider is a .280 AI, and if it was my rifle I doubt I would bother with the outsized chamber. For those who like em, short action rounds like the .260, .7-08, or the .308 are tempting when chambered in short light carbines. The .284 or the 6.5-284 is best chambered in a standard length action.
A flat shooting rifle makes the long shots easier, but once you are in the field the cartridge your rifle is chambered for is unimportant provided you can shoot it well. A model 94 in .30/30 wouldn't be an ideal sheep rifle, but you can make it work.
The last time I was in the Yukon this Sako .300 Winchester with a 3.5-10X Leupold and loaded with 165 gr Ballistic Tips proved itself on the 500 yard rams at the Whitehorse range, but unfortunately I didn't get the opportunity to hunt with it on that visit. For the record, shooting off the bench is poor practice for an upcoming hunt.
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That is what I would take myself, but if I was making a suggestion for anyone else's dedicated sheep rifle it would be a 7 or .300 magnum or a .270, .280, or a .30/06 with a factory chamber. The .25/06 shoots as flat as a laser, but I prefer a bullet with more mass and the 6.5 the smallest bore I am happy with for big game, despite the extraordinary performance a pal of mine has exhibited with his .25/06s. The only wildcat I would consider is a .280 AI, and if it was my rifle I doubt I would bother with the outsized chamber. For those who like em, short action rounds like the .260, .7-08, or the .308 are tempting when chambered in short light carbines. The .284 or the 6.5-284 is best chambered in a standard length action.
A flat shooting rifle makes the long shots easier, but once you are in the field the cartridge your rifle is chambered for is unimportant provided you can shoot it well. A model 94 in .30/30 wouldn't be an ideal sheep rifle, but you can make it work.
The last time I was in the Yukon this Sako .300 Winchester with a 3.5-10X Leupold and loaded with 165 gr Ballistic Tips proved itself on the 500 yard rams at the Whitehorse range, but unfortunately I didn't get the opportunity to hunt with it on that visit. For the record, shooting off the bench is poor practice for an upcoming hunt.
I have to agree I will also be taking my 375RUM if I go after sheep/goat this year and my buddy that used to pack a 270 Win for years has now switched to a 375RUM as well.
Last year he encountered quite a few grizzlies on his hunt (yes all of our hunts are unguided) he said that having the 375RUM along definately made him feel more capable of dealing with anything that he had to deal with.
We're both shooting 300gr Sierra Gamekings @ appr 2775fps (98grs RL22) they have the same BC's as the 260gr Accubonds's so also have an awesome trajectory and are extremely accurate I have repeatedly placed 3 shots within 3" with this rifle/load @ 460 yards shooting from field positions.
I attribute this accuracy to the B&C reticle scope and a range finder...
My buddy uses a Leupold VX111 2.5-8X duplex reticle scope and a McMillon stock, I use a VX111 4.5-14X Boone & Crocket reticle scope and I will switch out my LSS stock and pop on a synthetic stock for this kind of hunt.
Last year he encountered quite a few grizzlies on his hunt (yes all of our hunts are unguided) he said that having the 375RUM along definately made him feel more capable of dealing with anything that he had to deal with.
We're both shooting 300gr Sierra Gamekings @ appr 2775fps (98grs RL22) they have the same BC's as the 260gr Accubonds's so also have an awesome trajectory and are extremely accurate I have repeatedly placed 3 shots within 3" with this rifle/load @ 460 yards shooting from field positions.
I attribute this accuracy to the B&C reticle scope and a range finder...
My buddy uses a Leupold VX111 2.5-8X duplex reticle scope and a McMillon stock, I use a VX111 4.5-14X Boone & Crocket reticle scope and I will switch out my LSS stock and pop on a synthetic stock for this kind of hunt.
There aren't many sheep along the Hudson Bay coast, but when I do a Yukon Dall hunt I will simply pack the rifle I had built to hunt any big game anywhere on the planet. My .375 Ultra carbine will drive a 260 gr Accubond at 2900 resolving any issues concerning trajectory, and this thing has proven to be varmint rifle accurate.
That is what I would take myself, but if I was making a suggestion for anyone else's dedicated sheep rifle it would be a 7 or .300 magnum or a .270, .280, or a .30/06 with a factory chamber. The .25/06 shoots as flat as a laser, but I prefer a bullet with more mass and the 6.5 the smallest bore I am happy with for big game, despite the extraordinary performance a pal of mine has exhibited with his .25/06s. The only wildcat I would consider is a .280 AI, and if it was my rifle I doubt I would bother with the outsized chamber. For those who like em, short action rounds like the .260, .7-08, or the .308 are tempting when chambered in short light carbines. The .284 or the 6.5-284 is best chambered in a standard length action.
A flat shooting rifle makes the long shots easier, but once you are in the field the cartridge your rifle is chambered for is unimportant provided you can shoot it well. A model 94 in .30/30 wouldn't be an ideal sheep rifle, but you can make it work.
The last time I was in the Yukon this Sako .300 Winchester with a 3.5-10X Leupold and loaded with 165 gr Ballistic Tips proved itself on the 500 yard rams at the Whitehorse range, but unfortunately I didn't get the opportunity to hunt with it on that visit. For the record, shooting off the bench is poor practice for an upcoming hunt.
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I have to agree I will also be taking my 375RUM if I go after sheep/goat this year and my buddy that used to pack a 270 Win for years has now switched to a 375RUM as well.
Last year he encountered quite a few grizzlies on his hunt (yes all of our hunts are unguided) he said that having the 375RUM along definately made him feel more capable of dealing with anything that he had to deal with.
We're both shooting 300gr Sierra Gamekings @ appr 2775fps (98grs RL22) they have the same BC's as the 260gr Accubonds's so also have an awesome trajectory and are extremely accurate I have repeatedly placed 3 shots within 3" with this rifle/load @ 460 yards shooting from field positions.
I attribute this accuracy to the B&C reticle scope and a range finder...
My buddy uses a Leupold VX111 2.5-8X duplex reticle scope and a McMillon stock, I use a VX111 4.5-14X Boone & Crocket reticle scope and I will switch out my LSS stock and pop on a synthetic stock for this kind of hunt.
Ouch. Ya do what you gotta do I guess. Not many of us mortals can happily pull the trigger on a rifle that has 55ft\lbs of energy on our end. How do the 300gr Sierra hold up?
My buddy shot 1 6 point elk @ 40 yards and wasn't overly impressed with the performance the 6" exit hole out the off side rib cage didn't slow the elk down as quickly as he thought it should.
He shot another 6 point bull elk @ 80 yards in the neck driving the elk into the ground killing it almost instantly but the bullet seperated so he figured it failed.
I asked him at what point do you think the bullet failed he responded "when it seperated" I asked "did it kill the animal almost immediately" he answered "yes" I said "so obviously it did it's job and didn't fail if the animal died almost imediately"...
He was in on a buffalo hunt last fall as well he is a bit more convinced now that these bullets hold up to almost anything he can do with them put 2 into a big bull I don't know the range bullets mushroomed perfectly.
I haven't shot any animals with the Gamekings yet I have been using my 300gr Partitions for shots within 300 yards, shot my grizzly last year @ 230 - 250 yards the Partition worked perfectly.
He shot another 6 point bull elk @ 80 yards in the neck driving the elk into the ground killing it almost instantly but the bullet seperated so he figured it failed.
I asked him at what point do you think the bullet failed he responded "when it seperated" I asked "did it kill the animal almost immediately" he answered "yes" I said "so obviously it did it's job and didn't fail if the animal died almost imediately"...
He was in on a buffalo hunt last fall as well he is a bit more convinced now that these bullets hold up to almost anything he can do with them put 2 into a big bull I don't know the range bullets mushroomed perfectly.
I haven't shot any animals with the Gamekings yet I have been using my 300gr Partitions for shots within 300 yards, shot my grizzly last year @ 230 - 250 yards the Partition worked perfectly.
My buddy shot 1 6 point elk @ 40 yards and wasn't overly impressed with the performance the 6" exit hole out the off side rib cage didn't slow the elk down as quickly as he thought it should.
He shot another 6 point bull elk @ 80 yards in the neck driving the elk into the ground killing it almost instantly but the bullet seperated so he figured it failed.
I asked him at what point do you think the bullet failed he responded "when it seperated" I asked "did it kill the animal almost immediately" he answered "yes" I said "so obviously it did it's job and didn't fail if the animal died almost imediately"...
He was in on a buffalo hunt last fall as well he is a bit more convinced now that these bullets hold up to almost anything he can do with them put 2 into a big bull I don't know the range bullets mushroomed perfectly.
I haven't shot any animals with the Gamekings yet I have been using my 300gr Partitions for shots within 300 yards, shot my grizzly last year @ 230 - 250 yards the Partition worked perfectly.
I stopped using them in cartridges that pushed them higher than 2700fps just because of the frangibility (meat damage control really). They sure mushroom and work nicely in that 2600-2700fps range. And quite accurate to boot. I would think they would use a thicker jacket on the .338 + bores but have never really played with any heavier than the 200 .308. Dead animals normally mean that the bullet worked though eh?
I like the heavy Partitions. They just seem so traditional.
If the data in the manual is the same that is posted on the site,why did you use the R-19 data instead of the R-22 data?After all,you did post that you used the fastest loads from the manual.However the R-22 load listed on the site is faster than the R-19 load that you posted.Either you didn't use the fastest load in the manual as you posted you did,or the data listed on the site is different from that listed in your manual.If the data is different,perhaps the barrel length is as well.
Did he write about killing moose or caribou.Then using your logic,he must never have killed either of those species either.It has been established by Sako Alberta as well as myself, that Bell did work as a professional hunter in the Yukon shooting game to feed the gold rush participants.The main game species in the area were caribou,moose,and dall sheep,so it is only logical that these were the species that he hunted.If he didn't hunt those three species,what did he hunt?
Bell did not just hunt for his own subsistence in the Yukon,he hunted to feed many people,as such,he was a professional hunter,or a market hunter.The species that he hunted has not yet been proven,but only you deny that dall sheep could have been a part of his kill.
As for O'connor,he was a superb writer,but he killed many of his sheep on guided hunts.Given the same money,and time that he had available,as well as the abundance of sheep and lighter hunting pressure during his peak hunting career,many people could have killed just as many sheep as he did.
This one.
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