Canadian Army requests rule exemption for members shooting IDPA

Us and them? This is the IDPA right? International DEFENSIVE Pistol association? We Army types only use pistols as a last resort for DEFENCE of ourselves.So why not let us use our issued gear to compete? As far as I am concerned it is proffesional development for our troops to take on this competition on their own time and mostly at their own cost. No real us and them issue as far as I can see.

Next us and them will be guys who run leather holsters vs Kydex guys.

Jay you obviously read my post. You guys and gals are most welocme to compete in IDPA and the rule exemption stated above is a clear indication of our desire to support the men and women of our Armed Forces.. Nothing wrong with your eye sight either. There is no we/they situation in IDPA as any of the Army folks will attest to. Good luck, enjoy IDPA and thank you for your service.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 My bad, my post because I am such a slow typer was not in response to your post but I was obviously typing while you were posting. I love the idea of coming out in my uniform and full gear to compete! It was more of a general comment to all. I was responding to Stormbringers comments and you beat me to it. Like I said my bad, I will try to type faster next time.

J out
 
It's an Evolution...not a Revoution. I think it's a great move ahead for IDPA, and for those of us who actually want to compete in uniform. It opens up to the sport even further...

If there's a tangible downside to this, then we clearly missed it in hours of emails, PMs, and telecons.

Now put on your CADPAT, get out there, and compete!
 
I think most would use civilian versions of their duty weapons if they are not allowed by their departments to take home their duty weapons. It seems to me, if you have gone to the trouble of humping the gear you might want to shoot a reasonable facsimile of your duty weapon. Most Police Departments I believe allow officers to take home their weapons...I think.

I know the RCMP ERT folks can. Not sure about Municipal Police SWAT teams rules are.

The pistol must be IDPA compliant for the Division being shot. As far as I know all issued pistols meet one of the three pistol criteria or one of the two revolver divisions.

Individuals are free to email or PM me with specific questions they may have.

For Police Members

This exemption only applies to members of the RCMP or Municipal Police forces who are ERT or SWAT members. None ERT/SWAT members must use duty belts and belt holsters with all attachements if they want to shoot IDPA under the provisions outlined on page 35 of the rule book. Under the provision on page 35, No thiigh or leg holsters are allowed.

Take Care

Bob
 
Us and them? This is the IDPA right? International DEFENSIVE Pistol association? We Army types only use pistols as a last resort for DEFENCE of ourselves.So why not let us use our issued gear to compete? As far as I am concerned it is proffesional development for our troops to take on this competition on their own time and mostly at their own cost. No real us and them issue as far as I can see.

Next us and them will be guys who run leather holsters vs Kydex guys.

Did you see where I said that I was against anyone participating? Nope

Did you see where I was against them being able to use issue gear? Nope

What I am against is not allowing civilians the same 'exemptions" that they are allowed.

To be specific.

This part of the OPs post

NOTE: Under no circumstances are civilians to be accorded the privilege of using thigh holsters at I.D.P.A. Club events, Club Matches or Sanctioned Matches.

Now it just must be that both IPSC and IDPA have a problem developing the "pixie dust" that engenders the ability to use a thigh holster to its user that the Police and Military appear to have developed. Some day perhaps civies will be up to the "privilege" of using a thigh holster.
 
curiosity here..... not meaning to argue with anyone, but when in civvie life will you have a thigh rig? In military and some police duties I can see it but....... really in civvies? If and I mean if we everget CCW here in Canada it would behove people to train and practise with concealed carry tactics. I for one train both. My fighting pistol course in Grande Prairie I ran my barretta 92fs with a paddle holster high up on my hip. If I had a choice in uniform I would prefer my hip holster to a thigh rig anyways. Thig rigs sit too low for my liking. Had one in Afghan that sat higher than most and still wore my paddle with the issued BHP. Took some moving of kit but got it done.
 
Did you see where I said that I was against anyone participating? Nope

Did you see where I was against them being able to use issue gear? Nope

What I am against is not allowing civilians the same 'exemptions" that they are allowed.

To be specific.

This part of the OPs post

Stormbringer because IDPA is not shot with thigh or leg holster gear. Those are the rules. Live with it. IDPA members do. Folks falling in the above described category get to use their duty gear which includes thigh & leg holsters. The benefit they get is a venue to hone skills that might just save their lives when in theatre. If they can win a 12 cent certificate along the way, more power to them. I know everyone at the match will be cheering them on.

Police Officers are not required to wear a cover garment when playing IDPA with their duty gear and that rule has been in effect forever. I have never heard and have yet to hear one negative comment from anyone in the IDPA community regarding this new exemption or the previous page 35 exception for Police Officers. In fact it has been just the opposite.

Take Care

Bob
 
Whenever I shoot IPSC, I use a stock Browning HP with extra mag holders. In my mind, the run-and-gun courses of fire are TRAINING for the real thing, not COMPETITION for points or bragging rights or handicap or whatever.

In the unlikely situation that I might have to actually shoot someone, it will probably be an awkward draw and uglier engagement, off balance, and wondering WTF is happening within the ROE's, but with an issue military Browning. Training with skeleton Kydex, holosights, lightweight bullets/fast mv, and high speed everything isn't going to prepare me properly.

I may be slower than other Production shooters on the timings, but I'm rarely off the paper.
 
wow, with all the extra gear they have to wear in comparison to everyone else, why bother?

making them compete in uniform just to use a thigh holster? no thanks.
 
Stormbringer because IDPA is not shot with thigh or leg holster gear

Actually you cannot say that anymore.

.
Those are the rules
Well, to be correct those "were" the rules. There is now a distinction for "certain" individuals.

. Live with it
.Naturally, as I said it is a very similar rule to IPSC and I disagree with it there as well but it does not take away from the game. It is just annoying.

IDPA members do
That of course is up to them.
Folks falling in the above described category get to use their duty gear which includes thigh & leg holsters. The benefit they get is a venue to hone skills that might just save their lives when in theatre. If they can win a 12 cent certificate along the way, more power to them

But my question is was and shall be........why just them?
I just do not see the logic in it

. I know everyone at the match will be cheering them on.

I would hope that they cheer everyone on....no matter whether or not they belong in a specialzed group.
 
PeteL it is not just to compete. The CF has a new Operation. Op connection and the jist of it is to get all CF members out in the community doing what they do daily while in Uniform. I will probably when I do compete use my own concealed holster and pistol. Seeing the gear we wear daily gives the average civvie a small look into our world. how we walk and talk so to speak. i plan on using IDPA shoots to just get more trigger time in scenarios different to a typical range practice. Where commands are given and no free thinking or movement is allowed. In uniform with all our gear on isn't as bad as it sounds.

If this type of training saves one troops life overseas then it was worth my rucksacks weight in gold!!(75lbs) in case you were wondering.
 
wow, with all the extra gear they have to wear in comparison to everyone else, why bother?

making them compete in uniform just to use a thigh holster? no thanks.

too give them practice using there duty gear of course. the more they draw/reload/move with there duty gear the better they will be at there job im sure. that's what this ruling is all about. they have always had the option of shooting idpa in shorts & tee if they wanted.
 
Stormbringer...in 10 words or less, what's your issue exactly? And more to the point, were you this vocal about police being allowed duty rig in the IDPA rulebook?

Seriously - get it off your chest, because I've lost what your issue is with this in this whole stream of positive feedback (mostly). We pushed pretty hard to get this exemption and while I'm sorry it doesn't seem to make your day, it makes mine...and apparently, a number of IDPA shooters who have the honour to serve in the CF.

IDPA is mature enough to recognize the potential, and frankly, what they've done goes one hell of a longer way to "Support Our Troops" than a yellow ribbon on your car.
 
Ok 10 words............

" I dislike distinction of competitors aside from personal skill set".

took a bit to get that to 10.

Again..........I have ZERO problem with the rule that allows CF, POLICE heck anyone from shooging IDPA or IPSC or any shooting sport. I think that it is a great idea.
The only problem I have with it is as above. There should be no distinction between shooters. We should ALL be equal under the rules.
 
Ok 10 words............

" I dislike distinction of competitors aside from personal skill set".

took a bit to get that to 10.

Again..........I have ZERO problem with the rule that allows CF, POLICE heck anyone from shooging IDPA or IPSC or any shooting sport. I think that it is a great idea.
The only problem I have with it is as above. There should be no distinction between shooters. We should ALL be equal under the rules.

Thanks for that. Now all is clear.
 
Ok 10 words............

" I dislike distinction of competitors aside from personal skill set".

took a bit to get that to 10.

Again..........I have ZERO problem with the rule that allows CF, POLICE heck anyone from shooging IDPA or IPSC or any shooting sport. I think that it is a great idea.
The only problem I have with it is as above. There should be no distinction between shooters. We should ALL be equal under the rules.

Storm
I think you are making too much of this ....

In fact there is no problem with you shooting with a thigh holster......

simple really .....

write a cheque for the value of ....up to and including your life,
payable to the citizens of Canada .

In other words join one of the above named services and you too can use a thigh holster.
 
There should be no distinction between shooters. We should ALL be equal under the rules.

All they've allowed to happen is the creation of a division restricted to mil./police... They'll only be competing against their own ilk...


I really like what some 3-gun orgs have set up division-wise.

Open
Pistol - unlimited, magazines max 170mm. (USPSA Open)
Rifle - unlimited, bipods OK.
Shotgun - unlimited.


Limited
Pistol - no muzzle compensators, no optics, magazines max 140mm double-stack, 170mm single-stack. (USPSA Limited)
Rifle - no optics, muzzle compensators OK (no larger than 1" diameter by 3" length), no bipod, 30 round magazines max.
Shotgun - no optics, no muzzle compensators or ports, no speed loaders, may not be loaded with more than 9 rounds.


Tactical
An optic is allowed on one weapon, otherwise:
Pistol - same as Limited Pistol.
Rifle - same as Limited Rifle
Shotgun - same as Limited Shotgun.


He-Man
Pistol - same as Limited Pistol, but must .40 Cal. or larger (Major Power Factor), magazines may not be loaded with more than 8 rounds.
Rifle - same as Limited Rifle, magazines may not be loaded with more than 20 rounds.
Shotgun - same as Limited Shotgun, but must be 12 GA and pump action.


PCC
Pistol - same as Limited Pistol, but no magazine restrictions.
PCC Rifle - pistol caliber carbine, scored as pistol
Shotgun - same as Limited Shotgun.

I've also seen one called "Heavy Metal"
IIRC it's
Rifle: .308 or greater
Pistol: .45acp only
Shotgun: 12ga pump only
Sights: iron only.

And my Fav. "TROOPER"... which I think is close to what the mil. types interested have asked for within IDPA.
The only diff. here is that the orgs I shoot with don't say you have to "be" mil. or LE to shoot within the div.. I've seen just as many or more accountants, car salesman and house-husbands shoot "Trooper Div." as I've seen LEO's and mil. people.
Sure... I assume the mil./police guys shoot trooper 'cause they wanna play as they work, or... they're too cheap to buy their own gear :D
The other people who choose Trooper do it for the added challenge and/or whatever advantage they think they'll have within the div.

Trooper Class Rules
Written by MI3Gun
Thursday, 10 January 2008
The goal of this class are to encourage shooters to use field practical, tactical equipment that is reliable in adverse conditions and add an element of physical endurance to the competition not found in other classes.
1) The shooter must transport all firearms, ammunition, equipment, and cleaning supplies with them for the duration of the match from the moment they sign in.

2) The amount of ammunition the shooter begins the match with, is all they are allowed to use for the duration of the match. The shooter may have as much ammunition in their pack, vest, or ammunition carriers as he/she wishes.

3) Any back up guns the shooter may wish to use should their primary firearm become inoperable during the course of the match must be carried with them for the duration of the match.

4) The equipment must be carried via any man portable means and in a safe manner. No wagons, wheelbarrows, carts, sleds, etc allowed.

5) The shooter does not need to carry all this equipment during the course of fire, they may ground their rucksack and use only the equipment on their person if they wish.

6) Trooper class shooters must start with at least one liter of water on their person or in their rucksack. Additional water will be provided. The shooter must carry any beverages other than water themselves.

7) Any time a Trooper class shooter leaves the range, he/she must check his/her gear at the stat house where it will be secured to prevent tampering and/or adding or removing of equipment.

8) The only assistance allowed to a trooper class shooter during a course of fire, is verbal direction from the Range Officer only.

Failure to follow these rules or voluntarily choosing to drop out of Trooper Class will place the shooter in a class as determined by the firearms and accessories they are using.
Another individual can give medical assistance without bumping the shooter out of Trooper Class.
All trooper class shooters will be squaded together to ensure that participating shooters properly follow the rules.
Firearms:

1) Trooper Class shooters may use firearms from any of the other specified classes, in any combination, however they must be able to transport any firearms (and spares) from stage to stage by themselves without assistance.

2) There is no limit on magazine capacity, bipods, scopes, etc in Trooper Class.

3) If a shooter decides to carry more than one firearm, spare upper receiver, optics, etc they may elect to use them on a stage as they see fit. Rifle calibers may only be used on rifle targets, shotguns on shot targets, and pistols on pistol targets. Multiple firearms of the same category may only be used at the discretion of the range officer or as prescribed by the course of fire. For example; a shooter may not begin the stage with a bolt-action rifle and swap out to a semi auto carbine for the rifle targets unless authorized to do so by the range officer or switching guns prescribed by the course of fire. If a range officer assesses that it is reasonable and safe to allow a trooper class shooter to use multiple guns on a stage, they must do so for all Trooper class shooters.
 
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