How many Garands have you shot/owned that needed a "bump" to chamber the 1st round?

How many Garands have you shot/owned that needed a "bump" to chamber the 1st round?

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Vimy Ridge

Vimy Ridge

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How many Garands have you shot/owned that needed a "bump" to chamber the 1st round?

PLEASE ONLY VOTE IF YOU'VE ACTUALLY SHOT/OWNED A GARAND SO THAT THE RESULTS ARE ACCURATE!

This question and poll is something I wanted to get to the bottom of ever since I heard a claim that upwards of 90% of Garands need a "bump" on the op rod cocking handle to chamber the first round. I've also heard that it was an issue even during WW2. I think that 90% figure is a little high, but it would be interesting to know approximately how many rifles are like this. So my next question is what causes this, and why was it never properly corrected? I have heard that mixing and matching parts until something works can correct this issue. I've owned two Garands myself and both have had this issue. If this is true, the commonly used term "Garand Thumb" doesn't apply to many rifles. I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all, I know it does, just that maybe it isn't as common a concern as people generally think.

Please discuss.
 
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Garand thumb is more often the result of closing a bolt on an empty gun or trying to load a partial clip. Full clips should not pose the same risk regardless.
 
all of them and its no issue . thumb in back of the reciver , index wack the charging handle , then palms up on the handle
 
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The one Garand I have, the op rod needs a light bump to pop the first round out.

I would say it's a tight-clip effect.
 
100%.

One Garand owned.

Needs bumping on first round.


Tight En-Block effect, not the gun. If you loaded it with only seven in the clip, it would not need a bump.

Depending on the clip, it will either need bumping, or if it is loose and worn, it will chamber automatically.
 
m1

i two m1,s . and have shot a good number at most of the clubs around that i shoot at and i have not seen one that i did not have to bump including a D model.
 
This is an excerpt from FM 23-5, the army's field manual for the M1 Garand:

12. Loading the Rifle

(a.) Single round. To load a single round, pull the operating rod all the way to the rear. While holding the muzzle below the horizontal, place a round in the chamber an seat it with the thumb. With a knife edge of the right hand against the operating rod handle, force the operating rod slightly to the rear. Push down on the follower assembly with the right thumb and allow the bolt to ride forward. Remove the thumb from the follower assembly and release the operating rod handle, allowing the operating rod to go all the way forward.

(b.) Full clip. To load a full clip, hold the rifle at the balance with the left hand and pull the operating rod handle all the way to the rear. Place the butt of the rifle against the thigh or on the ground. With the right hand, place a full clip on top of the follower assembly. Place the thumb on the center of the top round in the clip and press the clip straight down into the receiver until it catches. Swing the right hand up and to the right to clear the bolt in its forward movement. Note that the operating rod is not held to the rear during loading since there is no danger of it going forward as long as pressure is maintained on the top round in the clip. It may be necessary to strike forward on the operating rod handle with the heel of the right hand to fully close and lock the bolt.

(c.) Partially filled clip. To load a partially filled clip, hold the rifle in the same manner prescribed for a full clip. With the operating rod all the way to the rear, place an empty clip into the receiver. Place the first round into the clip and on the follower, to the left of the follower slide. Press the second round into the clip, exerting a downward, turning motion until the round snaps into place. Load the remaining rounds in the same manner. With the knife edge of the the right hand against the operating rod handle force the operating rod slightly to the rear. Push down on the top round with the right thumb, allowing the bolt to start the top round forward. Remove the right hand and allow the operating rod to go forward.

You can see that it mentions when loading a full clip, that it may be necessary to bump the operating handle forward with the right hand to close the bolt so it would appear tha this practice was not uncommon, even when they were new.

I've usually had to bump mine and so does a buddy of mine. Never thought anything of it.
 
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In most cases a properly lubed and set up rifle should not need a manual assist to close the bolt. A 'sticky'action can be caused by freshly parkerized components which have not yet had been friction polished by use.A new clip can also contribute to this situation.In addition to proper lubrication, there are some other issues which can cause this situation and which should be investigated and corrected.
First,the op rod spring should be within specs for length and should not be excessively worn or distorted.The op rod spring must also be lubed.
Second,the action should not be binding at any point when it is cycled.You can perform the 'tilt test' to check for this.The 'tilt test' is done as follows:
1.Remove the barreled action from the stock
2.Remove the follower rod and op rod spring
3.Hold the entire barreled action in a horizontal position
4.Alternatively raise the muzzle and receiver end at a 45 deg angle from the horizontal position.The bolt and op rod should open and close fully without resistance from the weight of the bolt alone.It is a good idea to remove lubricating grease before doing this so that the grease does not slow the bolt and op rod travel.If the rifle fails the 'tilt test' ,there are a number of areas which must be corrected.These can include an improperly bent op rod,burrs on any working surface,and contact between op rod and lower band and/or gas cyl and there are others.
Proper timing of the rifle is another issue which needs to be checked to ensure that the bolt releases at the proper point when the clip is loaded.
 
In the attached link about the M1 Garand, you'll see some clips of John Garand demostrating the loading and cycling of the Garand rifle. You can clearly see him insert the clip, then bump the bolt forward with the butt of his hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLY3T1zGO9o

To me it would seem somewhat ironic that the man who designed the rifle would demostrate with one, that to some, is obviously not working correctly. Yet he jams the clip down and slams the bolt forward like he has done it a million times.

I don't claim to be an expert on the Garand but I still believe there is nothing wrong with a Garand that needs to be bumped on the first round.
 
jody_v said:
In the attached link about the M1 Garand, you'll see some clips of John Garand demostrating the loading and cycling of the Garand rifle. You can clearly see him insert the clip, then bump the bolt forward with the butt of his hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLY3T1zGO9o

To me it would seem somewhat ironic that the man who designed the rifle would demostrate with one, that to some, is obviously not working correctly. Yet he jams the clip down and slams the bolt forward like he has done it a million times.

I don't claim to be an expert on the Garand but I still believe there is nothing wrong with a Garand that needs to be bumped on the first round.
Click to expand...

That's an amazing piece of footage. Thanks for posting that. Very interesting. I agree that this "issue" is really a non-issue. I'd almost prefer one that doesn't slam forward when loading to save my poor thumb getting pinched. I think a tight enbloc could be the cause in certain rifles, however, I've tried many in my rifles and I can say for sure that it happens with all of them. Perhaps, like mentioned by purple, it can be attributed to newer parts that aren't worn in yet. Everything else is 100% fine with them and they are properly greased. That other info you posted is certain proof that this was something that occurred right from the onset. The results of the poll are interesting as well, all though it doesn't take into account the exact number of rifles, I think it would be safe to say that at least half of Garands are like this. I'm going to try loading with seven rounds next time I'm out shooting and see what happens just for the fun of it. Stay tuned for pics of bloody thumb. :p

Edit: not exactly sure what is meant when "tight clip" is mentioned. I'm assuming it's slight variations in the clip dimensions and not solely due to the clip being new and unworn itself. During the war I suspect that all the ammo used was preloaded into enblocs from the factory, so all of them would have been new. (except in isolated incidents where say a 30 cal belt was stripped in emergencies to load enblocs or something of that nature)
 
There is not necessarily something wrong with a rifle which requires a manual assist to fully close the bolt. I've owned,built and re-built several dozen M1s and am very fastidious about correct functionality. What I will say is that I would further investigate any rifle which consistently required a manual assist to close the bolt. A lot of used rifles are in need of a new op rod spring which will provide sufficient force to fully close the action on loading or after firing.Also,many Garand shooters do not appreciate the requirement to lube the rifle with grease in the correct locations-a fundamental to ensure the proper operation of the rifle. A newly re-parkerized rifle will often require a manual assist until the parts are smoothed up a bit by wear.
 
purple said:
There is not necessarily something wrong with a rifle which requires a manual assist to fully close the bolt. I've owned,built and re-built several dozen M1s and am very fastidious about correct functionality. What I will say is that I would further investigate any rifle which consistently required a manual assist to close the bolt. A lot of used rifles are in need of a new op rod spring which will provide sufficient force to fully close the action on loading or after firing.Also,many Garand shooters do not appreciate the requirement to lube the rifle with grease in the correct locations-a fundamental to ensure the proper operation of the rifle. A newly re-parkerized rifle will often require a manual assist until the parts are smoothed up a bit by wear.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of the time this is the problem.

When I first got mine I found that I had some cycling problems every so often, but after putting a couple of hundred rounds through it, cleaning and lubing it properly it shoots perfectly, every time. It had sat for some time in storage without being shot before I owned it so things were a bit "sticky".
I would also bet that many people use too heavy a choice of lubricant and that can attract dirt and slow the action down.
Having said that, I've NEVER had to bump the bolt forward after putting the clip in.
 
I have owned, over the years, 8 M-1 Garands. Half of them needed the initial push.
If the clip is inserted with the palm of the hand horizontal to the gun and raised above the receiver, in most cases, the bolt will release...thus giving the shooter M-1 thumb, unless the reflexes are fast. Over the years I have learned to place the palm of my hand against the the side of the gun with the op rod handle against the heel of the palm...pushing the clip in with the thumb and not the wrist (as in horizontal hand position). One needs some strength in your hand in order to do this easily...limp wrist does not work, as it crushes precious digits and mars the nail polish.
Cheers
 
M1

Own & shot one with acces to another. Both need the bump. Also, my neighbour is a retired marine (Hollywood type) who went through basic on hte M1 and he tells me that mostly he had to bump the handle too.
 
Interestingly enough for most of the way, it's been about a 50-50 split between the bumpers and the non-bumpers, with the bumpers taking a late lead.

What would be an interesting addition to this poll would be to find out which models are more prone to have to being bumped. Is it more inheritant in certain models or could it be as simple as a lubrication thing.

Anyway. Mine is an H&R and as I've said earlier, I'm mostly a bumper. As for lubrication, I apply grease in all the right places per the manual. I've never had cycling issues.
 
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