"short" AR Uppers

ckc123

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I'm looking at getting a second upper for my AR, which is short (current is 20")

what are the advantages/disadvantages of the various shorter uppers? 7.5" vs ~10.5 vs 11.5 etc.

Is it better to build one from scratch, or to get a complete build? (Eg issues around getting it to all work reliably from parts, vs a prebuilt and tuned upper)
(I have the technical ability to put it together from parts)

what are the effective ranges of the shorter barrel (7.5 vs 11.5) etc.?

anyone have any recommendations for short uppers?


Thanks in advance..
 
I have an LMT 10.5" that is great. I shoot in standing position off hand and can hit a 12" gong at 80 yards with the iron sights. Never had issues with it.
 
I have a thread from two days ago on a RRA LAR-15 7.5" upper.

I can hit a 6" target consistently at 50m. (using a 1x red dot)
I think 12" at 80 yards like M_A_T_T would be possible
 
With a 10.5" barrel, a 12" target at 80 yards should be gravy!

I have a 16" upper with a 1-4x scope on it, and an 11.5" upper with an Eotech & BUIS on it. Both shoot 6-7" groups at 100 metres, but with an optic on the 11.5" upper it will print 3-4" groups.

With that same set up; 11.5" barrel, eotech, I was able to hit a human torso sized steel gong 600 metres away with 8/10 shots, once I figured out a point of aim. The POA turned out to be around the bottom of the Eotech ring, so 30minutes, ish.

The main DISadvantage to running a shorter barrel is a loss of velocity. As a general rule, with the AR platform you lose 100FPS for every 1inch you remove from the a 20" barrel. Since you don't need to worry about terminal ballistics, this really only matters for your trajectory. If you are planning to get into competition, this will only matter when you're making shots out to 300 metres. I have my 11.5" zeroed about 3" high at 100 metres. Like I said, it shoots about 6moa, so I just centre the group on the top of my aiming point. With this zero, I still hit the kill-zone of a shillouhette target out to 300 metres, and by that time, I start missing wide anyways. :p

I personally don't see any advantage to a 7.5" barrel, except for fun. I'm not sure, but I think the reason for the 7.5" barrel is so that it can be classed as a pistol. Again, not sure.

For competition or CQB, the 10.5/11.5" barrels are the same in my book. I prefer to use the short barrel because of how it balances. I use a quad-rail system and a tango down grip, mounted about 4/5ths of the way up the rail (almost at the front sight). I like to have my hand that far forward so that I can swing onto my target & stop anywhere I want. Also, it moves the center of gravity well back, to around the mag housing. With a vortex flash suppressor on the barrel I can fire it with almost no muzzle jump. Sure, there's recoil, but it's almost straight back, and that allows lighting quick follow up shots. Since going with that set up my present time & follow up shot time have shrunk considerably.

As far as building vs. buying, there's NO reason not to build! Even if 11.5/10.5" barrels aren't available, a 14.5" or 16" barrel with a carbine length gas system can be cut down. I believe that the 11.5" barrel on my short upper just uses an un-modified carbine length gas system. The only thing you have to look out for if cutting down an AR barrel is if it's chrome-lined. I was told that you can "chip" the chrome lining when cutting down a chrome lined barrel. If that happens you'll have to cut more length off the barrel, and hope it doesn't happen again.

As for recomendations, whatever floats your boat! I like LMT & RRA, There's no reason to spend more money than that, because there will be no discernable change in quality until you get into the HK realm.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Tim H
 
The only thing to remember is when switching from a standard rifle to a carbine you will have to switch out the buffer, buffer tube and the spring.Other than that its a easy fix.An 11.5 is a great choice when doing a change over,they are also ready available from some suppliers. ATRS has dpms in stock,they can also make a custom Rock Creek if you like.

Cheers.
 
The only thing to remember is when switching from a standard rifle to a carbine you will have to switch out the buffer, buffer tube and the spring.Other than that its a easy fix.An 11.5 is a great choice when doing a change over,they are also ready available from some suppliers. ATRS has dpms in stock,they can also make a custom Rock Creek if you like.

Cheers.


You can switch a Carbine upper onto a rifle lower no problem. The only issue you would have is if you tried to use a Carbine length buffer in a rifle length buffer TUBE, or vice versa. If you tried to to use a carbine buffer in a rifle tube, you would have a bad day, the buffer is considerably shorter than a rifle length buffer. Your bolt would go too far to the rear, with your gas key smashing into the back of your upper receiver. Not good for the gun.

If you used a rifle length buffer in a carbine buffer tube, you would have an action that cycled violently, but wouldn't move far enough to the rear to pick up the next round in the mag.

A good friend of mine uses a lower with a full-length M16A2 style butt, and rifle length buffer assembly, along with an 11.5" upper.

Cheers.

Tim H
 
:agree:

I read here all the time, but I don't understanding it, it's like complaining when you are shooting your 22lr and the guy beside you his 338 LM - how about get better ear protection if the noise bothers you

/cl
 
I have an IDS 10.5" with iron sights and I shoot 40% at 500 yards. Out to 200 yards, and it shoots MOBTICA (Minute of "Better than I can aim")
 
I shot a 500m service rifle match with an 11.5", got on target, only issue was that the rounds were going sub-sonic by the time they got to the target, so the butt guys didn't hear my rounds come in. But was fun, didn't think it would get out that far, mind you the bullet drop was like 60" on a 50/200m zero.
 
I'm looking at getting a second upper for my AR, which is short (current is 20")

what are the advantages/disadvantages of the various shorter uppers? 7.5" vs ~10.5 vs 11.5 etc.

Is it better to build one from scratch, or to get a complete build? (Eg issues around getting it to all work reliably from parts, vs a prebuilt and tuned upper)
(I have the technical ability to put it together from parts)

what are the effective ranges of the shorter barrel (7.5 vs 11.5) etc.?

anyone have any recommendations for short uppers?


Thanks in advance..

First of all, I don't know how you can build one for scratch - some of the well respected gunsmith here at CGN will not cut AR barrels as they were told by CFC, it will make the rifle a prohibited device.

Next, even if it is indeed legal, you need to pick a gunsmith who knows AR. There are gunsmith out there who do not know jack about AR. They were cut your barrel without dealing with gas port.

I suggest you to check with some of the CGN dealers, and try to find a factory offering from a well respected manufacturer. Some of the CGN dealers do have factory short barrel instock. Not cheap - but they will work.

If you can find a factory barrel, it is really no brainer. Make sure you have a carbine or H buffer, and get one of those BCM extractor upgrade kit , which is an oring, extra power spring and insert( if it is LMT factory bolt, it has the oring already) in case the extracting power is not strong enough. I believe ARMSEAST has those kits at one point. Some others might have it too.
 
First of all, I don't know how you can build one for scratch - some of the well respected gunsmith here at CGN will not cut AR barrels as they were told by CFC, it will make the rifle a prohibited device.


Think you misunderstood.. I'm keeping the current upper with the 20".. going to build a second upper with a shorter (factory) barrel.
 
I have all barrel from 7.5 " to 20".
But for my range gun .
I alway take my shortie for fun.


I love my 7.5" Short barrels because the noise levels and muzzle flash.:D
 
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Well Colt Canada is making their CQB model with a 1\7 10 inch barrel (not 10.5) and it seems to work well ;)

Let's hope someone in Canada will start making them available to us civilian, (the 10 inch barrel i mean)



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