Kar98a Anonymous

Nabs

Nabs

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Hey everyone, I need some help with this one. I picked up a beautiful Kar98a from a gun-show not far from my house. I thought it was too good to be true, a beautiful Kar98a in excellent condition for $400 CDN. The seller is even going to throw in some stripper clips and two boxes of ammo at no extra cost. Naturally I felt a bit weird about purchasing it but I couldn't resist the price considering my prior experience to trying to locate Kar98a and/or b models in good condition. The one thing that perplexes me is that there are no unit markings, proof marks, or date stamps anywhere on the rifle. I did some digging on the internet and learned that Kar98a's and b's were "re scrubbed" in the 20s for the Weimar Republic. I have also looked at pictures on the internet of Kar98a models produced by Erfurt in 1915 and 1916 and my Kar98a resembles them in every way, even down to the screws and what not, the only missing items are the proof marks and date stamps.

Any ideas ? I can post pictures if they are needed.

Thanks.
 
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Doing some more research, I found out that only when the "b" model came out in the 20s was there any referral to "a" or "b" models. It would have simply been known as "Kar 98" during the war years. I also have "K98" on the left side of the receiver as well. I am thinking that this may in fact be a "b" variant but I think even those had date stamps.

The main parts of the Kar98 are painted black (forgive me as I am new to owning firearms, I have not memorized all the terms yet) as a Kar98k I have except for the bolt which has a bright finish. The bolt also does not have any proof marks, just serial numbers. I also think the stock has, at one point, been re-finished as it is very smooth to the touch but there are still some marks and pieces missing out of it every now and then.

I even tried to fit my 1916 and 1938 German bayonets and both went on without incident.

This rifle is both interesting and puzzling at the same time.
 
Actually, during WW1 it would have been referred to as the Kar 98a, as the Kar 98 was a completely different (and extraordinarily rare) rifle. I can't find a picture of it online, but I'll scan one of my books when I have a moment.
 
The really good camera is with the family on vacation until tomorrow evening. When they get back, I will be able to take some close up photos and hopefully post them either by tomorrow evening or Tuesday.
 
I just did some more digging on the internet and stumbled upon the same information. The pictures that were posted of Polish examples were identical to mine except mine has a round stacking hook, not a square one. I have performed a detailed look over of the Kar98a and the only real items to surface are the "K 98" stamp on the left of the receiver and the four digit serial number followed by the letter "V" just in front. The sling "port" that is embedded in the butt stock is on the left hand side of rifle opposed to the right hand side as I had seen in pictures of Erfurt examples.
 
As promised, here's a scan of the two types of Kar 98. Sorry for the poop quality, best I could do with printer/scanner and a hardcover book.

 
There should be Weimar proof marks ... :)

Erfurt made them from 1906 through 1918. BTW, check under the wood for serial numbers. Sounds like it's a nice piece and if it's a rare "all matching" collectible, it's worth a lot more than $400.

Compare it against the 1913/1920 (Double Dated) Kar98a Carbine (Originally manufactured by Danzig Arsenal in 1913)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=72 in the Germany - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here) http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15.

In fact, there's a 1915 Erfurt for sale right now in the Quartermaster Stores (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=1111

Regards,
Badger
 
So far, I am really leaning towards this rifle being a Polish scrubbed, German made but I was unable to find any manufacture marks or dates. As requested earlier, I have taken pictures of certain areas of the Kar98a. I also stripped her and cleaned every part and found out that the stock matches the receiver and trigger guard assembly as well as the floor plate. The bolt also appears to match as two digits codes are reproduced on the inner sides of the stock. I put her back together again before the camera came home so I wasn't able to get a picture of the matching serial number embedded in the stock. I apologize for any blurry pictures. There are 14 pictures in all. If you need another area photographed, let me know.

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Two side shots of the Kar98a.

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The stacking hook in this picture is round.

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Possible re-serial of the bolt ?

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Markings are scrubbed off the top of the receiver.

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Matching floor plate with serial.

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Weird symbol ? (These appear all over the stock, barrel, and bolt).
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Just for fun, a 1916 "Butcher" bayonet

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A 1938 bayonet.
 
Sure looks Polish to me - that's a Polish style square hook - "round" or "square" refers to the angle of the bend, not the shape of the hook itself.
 
I'm glad I picked her up for the price I paid. My one question would be the meaning of the symbols on the bolt and stock. The one I recognized was a Greek Omega symbol. I also removed and checked the sling piece on the left side of the butt stock and noticed a triangle formed by three circles. The other symbols I haven't a clue.
 
Yes, there are punch marks. I remember two areas, one being near the receiver and the other on the stock itself after I stripped her down for cleaning. It resembled Braille. Possibly these are from machines that manufactured the pieces ? The only other marks, aside from the four digit serial and model number on the receiver, are two digit codes on various parts of the barrel and stock. I also looked under the butt plate and noticed a number "7" stamped on the butt plate cover but nothing on the wood itself.
 
There was a beautiful Kar98a in a small museum here...it got welded up. So did the beautiful MkII Ross in another. And then there were those dozens of Rosses and rare Enfields etc. that Parks Canada welded up, but I digress...:mad:

Didn't the Kar98a have a checkered flat on the bolt knob in WWI?

H. W. McBride mentions capturing one in WWI and how he liked it.
 
That is definitely a KbK Wz 98. Poland exported (via SEPEWE) many thousands of 98 type rifles to the Franco regime in Spain during the civil war period. KbK Wz 98 and KbK Wz 29 are both found in this "scrubbed" condition.
 
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