590a1

[TDC]

What he said,

No manual safety on a Glock ,right TDC,

besides,pistol grip stocks tend to help with recoil managment. so pistol grip stock on mossberg is not such a bad Ideal, YMMV.


release the Hounds.

Right, no POSITIVE safety on a Glock but there are three passive safeties. Failing to use the safety is a deficiency in ones manual of arms. If you're blasting at the range from the line then this entire discussion is moot. If you compete or intend to use your shotgun defensively its a piss poor idea to neglect the manual safety.

Boomer,
As a lefty you are indeed up the creek. Hence my belief that a standard stock and a 590/500 is the ideal setup.

TDC

 

[ABCZAR]

Right, no POSITIVE safety on a Glock but there are three passive safeties. Failing to use the safety is a deficiency in ones manual of arms. If you're blasting at the range from the line then this entire discussion is moot. If you compete or intend to use your shotgun defensively its a piss poor idea to neglect the manual safety.

Boomer,
As a lefty you are indeed up the creek. Hence my belief that a standard stock and a 590/500 is the ideal setup.

TDC

me not boomer but I think that was meant for me....

I wish we used 590A1s for our job but the military is stuck with the 870 police magum.

I brought in my 590A1 for a new instructor (who is a lefty) to try. We compared the two at the range and most righties perfered it as well. I was defineately faster and could perform the drills correctly with the mossy as was the new instructor we got in.

Now we did find find the pistol grip useful in one case...when performing ballistic breeching. When you need to hold the gun on a funny angle (as sometimes you do) a pistol grip can actually be useful. All the breeching practiced however could be performed the same with the standard butt stock.

We do hold some pistol grip top folder 870s but use mostly the standards as they are better to shoot when you need to shoot them.

Still wish we used 590s.....

 

[870P]

me not boomer but I think that was meant for me....

I wish we used 590A1s for our job but the military is stuck with the 870 police magum.

I brought in my 590A1 for a new instructor (who is a lefty) to try. We compared the two at the range and most righties perfered it as well. I was defineately faster and could perform the drills correctly with the mossy as was the new instructor we got in.

Now we did find find the pistol grip useful in one case...when performing ballistic breeching. When you need to hold the gun on a funny angle (as sometimes you do) a pistol grip can actually be useful. All the breeching practiced however could be performed the same with the standard butt stock.

We do hold some pistol grip top folder 870s but use mostly the standards as they are better to shoot when you need to shoot them.

Still wish we used 590s.....

What was it specifically that you preferred about the 590? I find the Mossberg easier to load and I like the snappier extraction and ejection but that's about it.

 

[TDC]

ABCZAR,

I apologize, I noticed the Avatar and ASSUMED it was Boomer who was posting. You're right, my comment was directed towards you. On a side note, the use of pistol grips or pistol grip stocks for breaching work is fine as the purpose of the shotgun is for breaching as opposed to offensive work.

870P,

I won't answer for ABCZAR but I can tell you what sold me (and others) on the Mossberg. First, it isn't a Remington.. I kid I kid Honestly, the ambi safety is a huge plus. The recessed or flush shell lifter makes loading the tube a whole lot easier. It also permits ready visual access to the tube when checking your ammo levels. The twin extractors makes the entire process smoother and less stressful as there are two extractors. For the 590 the 9 shot capacity is a plus(Personally I find the 9 shot rather heavy). The stronger /thicker barrel and steel trigger group are pluses.

TDC

 

[Onagoth]

If you compete or intend to use your shotgun defensively its a piss poor idea to neglect the manual safety.

I do compete, and have never once used a safety. Nor have I ever relied on safety. Its only a piss poor idea for those who don't regard the four fundamentals of firearms handling.

I don't require a manual safety to be safe, I just use my brain. YMMV

 

[Quigley]

Just curious...but what do you do for a living?

ABCZAR,

I apologize, I noticed the Avatar and ASSUMED it was Boomer who was posting. You're right, my comment was directed towards you. On a side note, the use of pistol grips or pistol grip stocks for breaching work is fine as the purpose of the shotgun is for breaching as opposed to offensive work.

870P,

I won't answer for ABCZAR but I can tell you what sold me (and others) on the Mossberg. First, it isn't a Remington.. I kid I kid Honestly, the ambi safety is a huge plus. The recessed or flush shell lifter makes loading the tube a whole lot easier. It also permits ready visual access to the tube when checking your ammo levels. The twin extractors makes the entire process smoother and less stressful as there are two extractors. For the 590 the 9 shot capacity is a plus(Personally I find the 9 shot rather heavy). The stronger /thicker barrel and steel trigger group are pluses.

TDC

 

[Quigley]

Does anyone make a pistol grip stock for a Mossberg 590A1?

I have an Ace Delta on mine. It's not a once piece...it has a 4 poistion M4 style stock...

I bought it when they would still ship to Canada...

P&D used to have their products in stock once in a while...not sure if they still do.

 

[stormbringer]

Thats not a problem, I only use safeties when hunting.

So you do not plan on shooting any tactical/IPSC/IDPA shotgun matches then?


They ALL specify that the starting position for a loaded gun have its safety engaged.

 

[Onagoth]

So you do not plan on shooting any tactical/IPSC/IDPA shotgun matches then?


They ALL specify that the starting position for a loaded gun have its safety engaged.

Most of my multi-gun shooting is in Michigan, which I have never used any safeties. They have all started on an empty chamber.

I have only shot one multi-gun match in Ontario, I don't recall if I used any safeties, I don't think so and the SO/MD didn't seem to mind. The match was run under IDPA rules, which only states that the normal condition for pistols is loaded and safe. IDPA doesn't specify any rules for shotguns or ARs because these firearms are not part of IDPA, nor was there any specific mention that safeties are to be used.

If a match here required it, obviously I would have to comply. But I don't plan on shooting many 3 gun/4 gun matches here, just the occasional one.

 

[ABCZAR]

What was it specifically that you preferred about the 590? I find the Mossberg easier to load and I like the snappier extraction and ejection but that's about it.

Loading and the fire selector...the capacity was a plus but the length would be somewhat of a burden....we do not use the shotgun as a primary weapon usually...it will be slung on a solider who would also carry a C7/C8 so the shorter 870 we use is better in that aspect......so was the folder but hey,,in the military we don't get to pick what weapons we employ.

 

[870P]

Loading and the fire selector...the capacity was a plus but the length would be somewhat of a burden....we do not use the shotgun as a primary weapon usually...it will be slung on a solider who would also carry a C7/C8 so the shorter 870 we use is better in that aspect......so was the folder but hey,,in the military we don't get to pick what weapons we employ.

Thanks, when you say "shorter" 870s, does that mean there are some in inventory with less than 18" barrels?

Anyways I don't have a huge preference towards any of the common pump gun designs, It's more just a matter of detail. Despite my {brainfart induced} username I like the Ithaca 37 the most, followed by the 870, the Winchester 1300 and then the 500/590. However the personal fit and overall setup is is more important to me than the actual design.

 

[ABCZAR]

Thanks, when you say "shorter" 870s, does that mean there are some in inventory with less than 18" barrels?

Anyways I don't have a huge preference towards any of the common pump gun designs, It's more just a matter of detail. Despite my {brainfart induced} username I like the Ithaca 37 the most, followed by the 870, the Winchester 1300 and then the 500/590. However the personal fit and overall setup is is more important to me than the actual design.

A very good friend of mine has an ithica 37...great gun...i like shooting it.

We had some 14in barrelled 870s around at one time but we have now standardized oursleves with the 18in at my unit. We were able to have more guns for training this way as I understand it. A tiny bit shorter than the 590 but it was noticeable...and lighter not that it was so much that made a huge difference either way.

 

[TDC]

I do compete, and have never once used a safety. Nor have I ever relied on safety. Its only a piss poor idea for those who don't regard the four fundamentals of firearms handling.

I don't require a manual safety to be safe, I just use my brain. YMMV

The four fundamentals are worthless when you lose control of the muzzle or the firearm in general. Slips, trips and falls don't offer much in the way of muzzle control. Same can be said for dropped firearms. The manual safety is nothing more than an insurance policy when you are not in direct control of the firearm. Even while under control, foreign objects entering the trigger guard with a hot firearm are a disaster waiting to happen. Then again YMMV.

TDC

 

[Greenhorse six]

The four fundamentals are worthless when you lose control of the muzzle or the firearm in general. Slips, trips and falls don't offer much in the way of muzzle control. Same can be said for dropped firearms. The manual safety is nothing more than an insurance policy when you are not in direct control of the firearm. Even while under control, foreign objects entering the trigger guard with a hot firearm are a disaster waiting to happen. Then again YMMV.

TDC

This is right from the book.

"Remember, a firearm’s manual safety is a mechanical device which can never
replace safe firearm handling practices."

"Never rely on any mechanical mechanism or safety device to prevent the
dangers of careless handling or pointing a firearm in an unsafe direction."

BUT,My point about the pistol grip stock, unless you're in competition, a timed event ,it is useful to help control recoil,it's as so easier to reload ,keeping the weapon shouldered with a pistol grip stock.

There are down sides to it,as there are to most things,but its not a "BAD"ideal ,maybe just not good one, more then anything it's the nut behind the butt of the stock.

in a hurry ,got to go.

 

[TDC]

This is right from the book.

"Remember, a firearm’s manual safety is a mechanical device which can never
replace safe firearm handling practices."

"Never rely on any mechanical mechanism or safety device to prevent the
dangers of careless handling or pointing a firearm in an unsafe direction."

BUT,My point about the pistol grip stock, unless you're in competition, a timed event ,it is useful to help control recoil,it's as so easier to reload ,keeping the weapon shouldered with a pistol grip stock.

There are down sides to it,as there are to most things,but its not a "BAD"ideal ,maybe just not good one, more then anything it's the nut behind the butt of the stock.

in a hurry ,got to go.

If you're quoting the CFSC book its SH*T!! I'm well aware of not RELYING on a manual safety. No where did I say I would, should, or did. Manual safeties serve as another measure of safety when you LOSE CONTROL of your FIREARM or do not have DIRECT CONTROL of your firearm.

Pistol grip stocks aid in recoil reduction for those unfamiliar with other methods, which are far more effective for both recoil reduction and shot placement. As for reloads, they should be done from cover to begin with. Regardless, if you can't hold the shotgun up with one hand you either have too much crap hanging off it, its too heavy in general, or you need to hit the gym.

TDC

 

[Onagoth]

The four fundamentals are worthless when you lose control of the muzzle or the firearm in general. Slips, trips and falls don't offer much in the way of muzzle control. Same can be said for dropped firearms. The manual safety is nothing more than an insurance policy when you are not in direct control of the firearm. Even while under control, foreign objects entering the trigger guard with a hot firearm are a disaster waiting to happen. Then again YMMV.

TDC

Well, you can stick with your manual safety, I'll stick with my common sense. The situations you described are very rare events to those who keep mindful of how they're movement is. And a manual safety is completely useless if the CoF requires you to engage targets on the move.

 

[Quigley]

BUT,My point about the pistol grip stock, unless you're in competition, a timed event ,it is useful to help control recoil,it's as so easier to reload ,keeping the weapon shouldered with a pistol grip stock.

I use a pistol Grip stock in IPSC 3 gun and I don;t feel I'm at any disadvantage regarding time (it's not sloooowing me down any)

 

[drvrage]

I always thought the manual safety on a shotgun was for when you wanted to sling it but with a round in the chamber. The safety is only a layer of protection while bringing your gun into and out of "back storage".

Otherwise I've never used it.

 

[ABCZAR]

We use the manual safety on all weapons...it only comes off when your target has been positively identified as a threat and sights are aligned. No acceptions.

 

[TDC]

Well, you can stick with your manual safety, I'll stick with my common sense. The situations you described are very rare events to those who keep mindful of how they're movement is. And a manual safety is completely useless if the CoF requires you to engage targets on the move.

I disagree. Applying the four fundamentals as well as a mechanical safety only adds to ones safe handling practices. I'm with others, the safety does nothing to affect times competing. As ABCZAR posted, the safety is on until your sights are aligned and the conscious decision to fire has been made.

TDC