HEAD'S UP!!!! Higginson's OEM 4350 [N160] powder deterioration.

Eagleye

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THIS POWDER IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE FROM HIGGINSONS, AND IT HAS BEEN OUT OF STOCK FOR SEVERAL YEARS. THIS POST IS NOT IN ANY WAY TO BE INTERPRETED AS A "SLAM" AT HIGGINSON'S, OR SUGGESTING THAT THEY SELL "BAD" POWDER. PLEASE BUY FROM THEM IN CONFIDENCE.
Just wanted to share a little incident that may be of interest to anyone who has any of this powder stowed away. This has not only happened to me but also to "bearhunter" who also posts on this forum. A couple of weeks ago, I noticed a strange occurrence in a wooden drawer where I keep small quantities of various powder for reloading at my bench. The metal lids on my Hodgdon plastic containers were all rusty and corroded around the edge. I wondered what was the reason, but since the drawer is quite airtight when closed, I reasoned that some moisture had been trapped in there, causing the rust. I wiped the lids down with an oily rag and opened the drawer a crack to vent it. In talking recently to bearhunter about powders, he just happened to mention that he had a batch of this Higginson's powder go bad, with the indications being "sweating" and "gassing" of the powder in it's original plastic bag. His words were "It made quite a mess" This clicked when I read it so went back to my powder drawer and checked the all-plastic container that I had a quantity of this powder in. Lo and behold, the inside of the container was wet and the powder had a very acrid odor. The moisture, when checked with litmus paper is very, very acidic. Then I remembered that I had an unopened 7 lb container in my powder magazine, so went out there and checked it. Same thing!! The acidic vapors had so attacked the cardboard box that it literally fell apart. the upper part of the powder was wet, with droplets of acid formed inside the plastic bag. Obviously a dead loss. Before anyone suggests poor storage, this powder has always been stored properly. Cool, dark, with next to no temperature variations. In fact I have some powder stored that has been out of production for 3 decades, and it is still perfect, and performs just as it did when it was fresh. For any of you reloaders on here who may have some of that Higginsons OEM 4350 [N-160] I would suggest that you take a look at it, and if there are any of the aforementioned signs of deterioration, get rid of it immediately, for safety sake. Incidentally, because of the acidic nature of the powder when it deteriorates, I would not recommend putting it on your lawn. This stuff is corrosive! Regards, Eagleye.
 
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Just wanted to share a little incident that may be of interest to anyone who has any of this powder stowed away. This has not only happened to me but also to "bearhunter" who also posts on this forum. A couple of weeks ago, I noticed a strange occurrence in a wooden drawer where I keep small quantities of various powder for reloading at my bench. The metal lids on my Hodgdon plastic containers were all rusty and corroded around the edge. I wondered what was the reason, but since the drawer is quite airtight when closed, I reasoned that some moisture had been trapped in there, causing the rust. I wiped the lids down with an oily rag and opened the drawer a crack to vent it. In talking recently to bearhunter about powders, he just happened to mention that he had a batch of this Higginson's powder go bad, with the indications being "sweating" and "gassing" of the powder in it's original plastic bag. His words were "It made quite a mess" This clicked when I read it so went back to my powder drawer and checked the all-plastic container that I had a quantity of this powder in. Lo and behold, the inside of the container was wet and the powder had a very acrid odor. The moisture, when checked with litmus paper is very, very acidic. Then I remembered that I had an unopened 7 lb container in my powder magazine, so went out there and checked it. Same thing!! The acidic vapors had so attacked the cardboard box that it literally fell apart. the upper part of the powder was wet, with droplets of acid formed inside the plastic bag. Obviously a dead loss. Before anyone suggests poor storage, this powder has always been stored properly. Cool, dark, with next to no temperature variations. In fact I have some powder stored that has been out of production for 3 decades, and it is still perfect, and performs just as it did when it was fresh. For any of you reloaders on here who may have some of that Higginsons OEM 4350 [N-160] I would suggest that you take a look at it, and if there are any of the aforementioned signs of deterioration, get rid of it immediately, for safety sake. Incidentally, because of the acidic nature of the powder when it deteriorates, I would not recommend putting it on your lawn. This stuff is corrosive! Regards, Eagleye.


Eagle

by N 160, is that the same as Nobel?
Thanks FS
 
Have you discussed this with Higginsons? This is hardly an emergency in which there was simply no time and lives had to be saved. Not only should they know, but they could possibly shed some light on what might be happening. One thing's for sure, their reputation has taken a hit. I hope you have all the information and it's correct.
 
Eagleye..
I have quite a bit of this powder on hand and so far it has not deteriorated as badly as yours..The OEM 4350 that I transfered into a empty relabeled Hodgdon bottle and had in my powder measure all winter did rust my measure to the point that I had to disassemble it and clean it up...The OEM 4350 that I have stored in the original Higgisons cardboard/plastic bag containers seem fine... I will wait for a year or so before I use any more.. It is a very good powder and I have too much of it to toss at this point...

I might add thanks for the heads up!
 
Have you discussed this with Higginsons? This is hardly an emergency in which there was simply no time and lives had to be saved. Not only should they know, but they could possibly shed some light on what might be happening. One thing's for sure, their reputation has taken a hit. I hope you have all the information and it's correct.

Andy; I probably will not bother to mention this to Andrew at Higginson's. For one thing, the stocks of this powder ran out years ago. I checked my purchase records, and the original 28 lbs I bought were dated June 1997. Secondly, at the time it was available, it was in great shape. Only after a number of years did it show the characteristics I have mentioned. If it only happened in one instance, or to one person, I would be reluctant even to mention it on here, but with two users experiencing the same phenomenon, I felt obliged to pass it on. The smell is an instant clue. It is akin to putting your nose into a bottle of household ammonia, but acidic, rather than basic.

NRUT; Those who have some that is still OK, I would be keeping a close eye on it. The fact that it rusted your measure tells me that at least that powder in your measure was emitting some corrosive gases.

Regards, Eagleye.
 
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I bought a bunch (N-160) years ago. Three years ago upon firing I noticed extreme pressures in my 280 which had been reloaded & stored! Like almost locking the bolt :eek: Yes the caps rusted right off my cans. I dumped it all out. Strangely when I tried burning some it wouldn't light :confused:

To bad it was GREAT powder for the 280, never been able to duplicate velocities I obtained with that powder.
 
Andy; I probably will not bother to mention this to Andrew at Higginson's. For one thing, the stocks of this powder ran out years ago. Secondly, at the time it was available, it was in great shape. Only after a number of years did it show the characteristics I have mentioned. If it only happened in one instance, or to one person, I would be reluctant even to mention it on here, but with two users experiencing the same phenomenon, I felt obliged to pass it on. The smell is an instant clue. It is akin to putting your nose into a bottle of household ammonia, but acidic, rather than basic.

NRUT; Those who have some that is still OK, I would be keeping a close eye on it. The fact that it rusted your measure tells me that at least that powder in your measure was emitting some corrosive gases.

Regards, Eagleye.

Two very relevant facts that you just brought up:

- "the stocks of this powder ran out years ago"; and
- "Secondly, at the time it was available, it was in great shape."

How old is the powder?

You know how rumours start and the harm they can cause, so, would it not have been wise at teh very top to state in BOLD that:

- this powder is no longer available (it was sold from about 19XX to about 19XX); and
- there is no need to be concerned that Higginsons is selling bad powder?
 
:D

A good post - people need to know how to tell when powder's gone bad.

Just wouldn't want to see any "collateral" damage.
 
What? Should I cancel my order with Higginson's, I just read this thread. I wanted to get some H335 because WSS doesn't carry this and Cabelas's is on back order. I didn't realize they're selling rotten powder
 
What? Should I cancel my order with Higginson's, I just read this thread. I wanted to get some H335 because WSS doesn't carry this and Cabelas's is on back order. I didn't realize they're selling rotten powder


And people have a problem with my sense of humour. :p
 
No problem with any powder, or any other product I've bought from Higginsons.
Excellent people IMO.
My guess is that the problem originated before it came to Higginsons, or in transit.
I do think you should contact them. I don't expect them to replace it. It wouldn't be fair, they have no control over storage after it leaves their facility.
Sounds like your storage couldn't have been much better.
 
What? Should I cancel my order with Higginson's, I just read this thread. I wanted to get some H335 because WSS doesn't carry this and Cabelas's is on back order. I didn't realize they're selling rotten powder

Re-read the thread, it was about an obsolite powder sold several years ago.
Just happened to be sold by Higginsons (previous owner).
Powder doesn't last for ever.
Andy made excellent posts explaining how this could cause collateral
damage by the main post not being taken for what it was.
Now people are second guessing if they should buy from them.
Higginson doesnt make the powder, they import it in for resale.
Not all powders have the same shelf life depending on their age and storage
conditions.
Who knows when the actual date of when that one bad powder was made.
Could have been WW2 for all anyone knows.
 
No problem with any powder, or any other product I've bought from Higginsons.
Excellent people IMO.
My guess is that the problem originated before it came to Higginsons, or in transit.
I do think you should contact them. I don't expect them to replace it. It wouldn't be fair, they have no control over storage after it leaves their facility.
Sounds like your storage couldn't have been much better.

Did you read my disclaimer? I was in NO way blaming Higginson for this issue. They are good people, and I for one, will continue to purchase from them.
FWIW, My storage is as good as it gets for powder. 6-9ºC, dark, Ventilated, but without drafts. Simple deduction would indicate something else than storage is involved when more than one reloader experiences the same problem with one specific powder. Who knows what happened to this powder? Personally, I don't care. I merely posted to alert those who have some at home to make sure they check it out to save the possible collateral damage that could occur from the acidic atmosphere that is created by the deterioration, nothing more, nothing less. Eagleye.
 
I have bought from Higginson and they provide good powders - it is too bad that a crappy lot got through. That sucks having to dump lbs of powder into the waste bin. You should try dumping it in firepit and light a fuze and see what happens :p Big fireball might make you a feel a little bit better about the powder... That's why you need a big Ultra Mag/Lapua Mag/BMG that way by the time you shot 500 rounds you don't have any powder to go bad.
 
I have bought from Higginson and they provide good powders - it is too bad that a crappy lot got through. That sucks having to dump lbs of powder into the waste bin. You should try dumping it in firepit and light a fuze and see what happens :p Big fireball might make you a feel a little bit better about the powder... That's why you need a big Ultra Mag/Lapua Mag/BMG that way by the time you shot 500 rounds you don't have any powder to go bad.

G4E; Higginson's do provide good powders.:rockOn: Not their fault that this stuff went south. I did burn that 8 or 9 pounds in the firepit out back. Made a pretty impressive fire that reached up about 20 feet!:eek::D I did work my way through about 20 pounds before the rest went bad, so cannot complain, really. The original price was very attractive, IIRC. Eagleye.
 
This is not an unusual occurrance--it happens from time to time--Pre Higginsons used to sell a powder called "44" powder which was similar to imr 3031 and from time to time certain lots would go bad. Also have seen it with 8# of imr 4895 and one-pounders of 4831. It is an issue that happens because of improper rinsing of the powder during the manufacturing process--doesnt usually show up for 6-8 years or more--can be accelerated by improper storage conditions.

Is in no way a reflection of the retailer.

44Bore
 
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