- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
MOOSE AT 550 yards
- Thread starter goring
- Start date
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I think you did the right thing on passing. WAY more shots at that range are misses or wounds than kills. You just can't kill everything you see.
Earlier this year I installed a 3-9 VX 11 LR scope and sighted it in on my neighbours Browning BAR 30-06 I even gave him about 40 150gr loads that I sighted the rifle in with.
He did not even test it out and when I saw him leaving on a trip a week ago he had a factory box of 180gr bullets that he was going to hunt with.
I asked if he had tried his factory loads out to see where they hit he told me no why would I do that you sighted it in so its good.
This is a guy that will take 300 yard shots on game.
I compliment you for passing up on the shot.
Myself I only own one rifle/cartridge/load combo that if conditions were perfect I would have taken that shot it is my 26" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM with my 300gr Sierra Gameking loads @ 550 yards it still has a retained velocity of 1850fps and 2250 ft lbs retained energy.
When conditions are right I can put 3 shots into 3" @ 460 yards using the second line down on my Boone & Crockett reticle the drop for that extra 90 yard shot is less than 18" so I would just hold a bit higher and let the bullet drop into the lungs.
In over 30 years of hunting big game I have never taken a shot at these kinds of distances before never had a rifle I trusted so much before or the need to take a longer shot on game.
He did not even test it out and when I saw him leaving on a trip a week ago he had a factory box of 180gr bullets that he was going to hunt with.
I asked if he had tried his factory loads out to see where they hit he told me no why would I do that you sighted it in so its good.
This is a guy that will take 300 yard shots on game.
I compliment you for passing up on the shot.
Myself I only own one rifle/cartridge/load combo that if conditions were perfect I would have taken that shot it is my 26" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM with my 300gr Sierra Gameking loads @ 550 yards it still has a retained velocity of 1850fps and 2250 ft lbs retained energy.
When conditions are right I can put 3 shots into 3" @ 460 yards using the second line down on my Boone & Crockett reticle the drop for that extra 90 yard shot is less than 18" so I would just hold a bit higher and let the bullet drop into the lungs.
In over 30 years of hunting big game I have never taken a shot at these kinds of distances before never had a rifle I trusted so much before or the need to take a longer shot on game.
Nothing wrong with the 7-08 in Dennis' example, but to expect just any old 7mm bullet to perform reliably at such low impact velocities might turn out to be be a mistake.
As far a caliber selection goes I personally let that be dictated by the bullet I want to shoot and how that (singular) bullet will perform on impact at the range in question.
At real long range I personally prefer to err on the big side of things.
To my mind the most important aspect of long range hunting is knowing when NOT to shoot. Shot distance is only one of many field conditions to be methodically weighed and evaluated.
As far a caliber selection goes I personally let that be dictated by the bullet I want to shoot and how that (singular) bullet will perform on impact at the range in question.
At real long range I personally prefer to err on the big side of things.
To my mind the most important aspect of long range hunting is knowing when NOT to shoot. Shot distance is only one of many field conditions to be methodically weighed and evaluated.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I have nothing against the man who has proven many times what he can do with his rifle from attempting any shot he thinks is reasonable. But when the discussion turns to long range shooting, where flat shooting rifles have more than a foot of drop at the target, the inexperienced will believe he is capable to shooting up to his rifle without ever attempting such a shot on paper, and having no idea of the gremlins that await him. Some years ago we put on a 800 yard dynamite shoot, where to score a bullet would hit a 12 ounce pop can filled with a bullet sensitive dynamite at the berm 825 yards distant. The first thing that happened was that the locals who showed up with their hunting rifles quickly returned them to their pick ups when they saw our match rifles (which we had previously zeroed to that range). That means that the majority of those who showed up believed that their hunting rifles were capable of 800 yard hits. As it turned out, it was a miserable day with a 60 Click cross wind with horizontal rain and ice pellets, but at least the bugs hadn't come out yet. The one hunting rifle that stuck around was our South African Doc's Weatherby Accumark in .30-378 topped with a Mk 4, 4.5-14 Leupold . . . he won by the way.
Which brings us to our next point. Having the accuracy to hit our target is only one part of the problem. The bullet must have enough residual energy left to penetrate and expand so that a killing blow is delivered. Few game bullets will expand much below 2000 fps, so the long range hunter will often choose a match bullet to achieve the maximum accuracy, retained velocity, and bullet upset. Whether or not this is a good idea I don't know, but I do know that after shooting seals at relatively close range with match bullets they do not act the way I want my bullets to act. It might very well be that they work wonderfully at long range, but I do have the jacket sans core from a 200 gr MK that I recovered from the back of an 1100 yard target board that would seem to argue against that premise.
It could be argued however that had the bullet been a 300 gr .338 rather than a 200 gr .308, that even with a failed jacket, the game would still be killed cleanly given a proper bullet tract.
Suffice to say though that there are proven long range shooters who are more than capable of taking big game at long range. I can't do that, so my long range shooting is limited to paper and vermin. I prefer the premise that if you can get closer - then get closer and if you can get lower - then get lower.
Which brings us to our next point. Having the accuracy to hit our target is only one part of the problem. The bullet must have enough residual energy left to penetrate and expand so that a killing blow is delivered. Few game bullets will expand much below 2000 fps, so the long range hunter will often choose a match bullet to achieve the maximum accuracy, retained velocity, and bullet upset. Whether or not this is a good idea I don't know, but I do know that after shooting seals at relatively close range with match bullets they do not act the way I want my bullets to act. It might very well be that they work wonderfully at long range, but I do have the jacket sans core from a 200 gr MK that I recovered from the back of an 1100 yard target board that would seem to argue against that premise.
It could be argued however that had the bullet been a 300 gr .338 rather than a 200 gr .308, that even with a failed jacket, the game would still be killed cleanly given a proper bullet tract.
Suffice to say though that there are proven long range shooters who are more than capable of taking big game at long range. I can't do that, so my long range shooting is limited to paper and vermin. I prefer the premise that if you can get closer - then get closer and if you can get lower - then get lower.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
OK so we assume that someone who has all the skills acquired through years of practise can "make" the shot..... then what? How many hunters can mark the spot, get themselves to it, and track an animal any distance at all through second growth and clearcut slash? I have found many big game animals shot well and wasted by people who expect them to just drop in their tracks ( "DRT" is a very popular term on this forum, but seldom happens with an animal not hit in the spine ) With very few exceptions, there will NOT be an exit wound on a moose shot at 600 yards. Unfortunately, far too many people will poke a shot into a moose, fail to find exactly where it was standing, lose the track (if they find it at all), and leave it to suffer or waste a half ton of good meat. Shooting skills at long range are a very small part of being an ethical hunter. The OP did very well to pass up the shot IMHO.
X2 on Boomer's comments. There is much more to hunting than seeing game animals and then shooting at them. I've seen way to many "road warriors" who cruise around and then bale out to strafe away at whatever they see at whatever range. It is really sad to find the lost and wounded animals that they leave.
The real challenge(and sport) in hunting is to get out on your feet and use the wind and cover so that you are able to get shots at undisturbed animals @ 100 yds or less. Muzzle loading and archery are great teachers here.
Deer are smart and learn to pattern the truck hunters to the point where they will not leave cover until last light. What they will do is get on their feet and move towards the feeding areas before last light. I've gotten some nice bucks by getting in the bush 100-200 yds from the edge and intercepting them en route to feeding areas before dark.
The real challenge(and sport) in hunting is to get out on your feet and use the wind and cover so that you are able to get shots at undisturbed animals @ 100 yds or less. Muzzle loading and archery are great teachers here.
Deer are smart and learn to pattern the truck hunters to the point where they will not leave cover until last light. What they will do is get on their feet and move towards the feeding areas before last light. I've gotten some nice bucks by getting in the bush 100-200 yds from the edge and intercepting them en route to feeding areas before dark.
That is an excellent technique I have used it before but have not done it in about 10 years.
I was in an area Saturday afternoon/evening where it would have worked perfectly it was even raining so any of my sounds would have been covered up as well.
Thanks for the reminder...
Don't you think we have enough hoops to jump through to go hunting now?
We are legislated to death with regulations to save us from ourselves.
There's hunter safety training(a good thing) and federal firearms course, courses mandatory for snowmobiles, outboard motor boats, ATVs etc.
You can train someone all you want but in the real world there's no accounting for excitement, bad judgement or just plain crazy behaviour.
I know I am repeating myself, but why do many assume that because you shoot a 500 or 600 yard critter you must have been road hunting or strafing or hammering away with a semi .....?
Guys I know are some of the best hunters ever, they bury themselves into a corner of a wide open 4 mile square grain field at -30, or a blind or a brush pile overlooking a feeding area or a forest edge and spend the night or arrive in the snow at 430 am and wait or still hunt or whatever -- If the animal that they choose happens to be 100, 200, 500 yds or whatever range - and the shot can be made effectively - then they take it.
It is not un-ethical if you can do it. It is not immoral. Otherwise we should all just shoot a 30-30(or fill in another close range round here). Again, my own view is that I myself do not approve of bow hunting as I have found sooo many skeletons with an arrow laying in the remains. It does not mean that a bow is a bad thing -- just not for me.
And as stated in the other threads on this -- the guys with the 30-30 (or whatever rifle) miss and wound animals from close range as well, and chasing a wounded animal is no fun from whatever distance you shot it from.
And yes I have wounded animals from close and medium range and have tracked them for days. Sometimes they have been lost.
Should I have shot better? closer? bigger gun? practised more? stayed at home and watched hockey? Naw -- that is what can happen when you choose to kill a creature. A thousand variables that you try and control.
Guys I know are some of the best hunters ever, they bury themselves into a corner of a wide open 4 mile square grain field at -30, or a blind or a brush pile overlooking a feeding area or a forest edge and spend the night or arrive in the snow at 430 am and wait or still hunt or whatever -- If the animal that they choose happens to be 100, 200, 500 yds or whatever range - and the shot can be made effectively - then they take it.
It is not un-ethical if you can do it. It is not immoral. Otherwise we should all just shoot a 30-30(or fill in another close range round here). Again, my own view is that I myself do not approve of bow hunting as I have found sooo many skeletons with an arrow laying in the remains. It does not mean that a bow is a bad thing -- just not for me.
And as stated in the other threads on this -- the guys with the 30-30 (or whatever rifle) miss and wound animals from close range as well, and chasing a wounded animal is no fun from whatever distance you shot it from.
And yes I have wounded animals from close and medium range and have tracked them for days. Sometimes they have been lost.
Should I have shot better? closer? bigger gun? practised more? stayed at home and watched hockey? Naw -- that is what can happen when you choose to kill a creature. A thousand variables that you try and control.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
I have yet to meet a long range shooter who has the self control required to punch their tag if they draw blood and do not recover the animal. That's where the bragging meets consequences at our camp.
Our rule is, take any shot you feel comfortable with, but if you wound and don't recover the animal, you're done. Punch you tag and hang it on the "wall of shame." If you can't do that you are not invited back. Interesting how that suddenly cuts out all the long range BS. If there are consequences to wounding, the long range and other marginal shots are usually not attempted.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
With a thousand variables, and the knowledge that me and the few I hunt with take a lot of effort to eliminate or reduce the variables, I wouldn't ask one of them to punch their tag if an animal was lost...even more so given the fact that I have never lost, seen one lost, or been in on a hunt, where an animal has been lost.
Which brings us back to the original question --
According to the consensus here - a 30-06 pump gun is all the rifle you will ever need and if you practise allot and keep all your shots under 100 yards while walking in the bush - you will never wound, miss or be placed on a wall of shame. You will become the perfect hunter.
All other rifles may now be turned in for disposal.
According to the consensus here - a 30-06 pump gun is all the rifle you will ever need and if you practise allot and keep all your shots under 100 yards while walking in the bush - you will never wound, miss or be placed on a wall of shame. You will become the perfect hunter.
All other rifles may now be turned in for disposal.
