Ghost Round? Floating the fourth?

Jay

Jay

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Okay Guys, looking for your comments here... Does a cartridge on the elevator of a shotgun "count"??? I checked both the Migratory Bird Regs & Ontario Hunting Regs... And, after reading it several times, it seems that there is a loophole here where you could legally put a fourth round on the elevator of your semi-auto shotgun???

Thoughts???

Cheers
Jay


Migratory Bird Regulations;

http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca/1_pdf/regulations.pdf

HUNTING METHODS AND EQUIPMENT

15. (1)
(d) with a shotgun of any description capable of holding more than three shells unless the capacity of the gun has been reduced to three
shells in the magazine and chamber combined, by means of the cutting off or the altering or plugging of the magazine with a onepiece metal, plastic or wood filler that cannot be removed unless the gun is disassembled;

And, from the 2009 Ontario Hunting Regulations;

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/251888.pdf

General Regulations, Firearms;

"You must plug a semi-automatic or repeating shotgun so that it will not hold more than a total of three shells in the chamber and magazine combined."
 
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Its tempting fate IMO.....it all comes down to how a CO would see if it he catches you.

Could that forth round offer any worth while advantage when hunting? maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Either way, its probably not worth the risk.

Would the elevator be considered part of the magazine or chamber?
 
pharaoh2 said:
The law reads 2 in the magazine, 1 in the chamber for a total of 3 shots max. If you try to put a fourth on the lifting unit it'll jam and double feed, if you could close the bolt at all.
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I shoot with a guy in the states who always puts an extra round in the elevator of his benelli.....never had a jamming issue.
 
How is that even possible? You pull the trigger, the bolt opens and causes the mag stopper to be released. The round pops out of the tube and onto the lifter. There is no sensor in there to tell the gun the lifter is full. Or am I missing somthing?
 
I've heard it refered to as "Ghost Loading" and it is possible with some semi's but not all I think. I know the Benelli Super 90 M4 can do it without jamming issues. Also the Mossberg 930 Special Purpose.
 
pharaoh2 said:
How is that even possible? You pull the trigger, the bolt opens and causes the mag stopper to be released. The round pops out of the tube and onto the lifter. There is no sensor in there to tell the gun the lifter is full. Or am I missing somthing?
Click to expand...

Well, I don't quite understand the physics of it, and its not my gun....I just know he does it and it works. :redface:

Perhaps the mag stopper releases a round onto the lifter, after the one which was idle there is loaded into the chamber, which also happens after the bolt has closed to stop the second round from coming up. IDK for sure, just speculating.
 
After doing more reading, apparently Benelli "corrected" the "issue" at some point. But you can modifiy the bolt to get the one onto the elevator without issue if you choose.
 
GIGGIDY said:
After doing more reading, apparently Benelli "corrected" the "issue" at some point. But you can modifiy the bolt to get the one onto the elevator without issue if you choose.
Click to expand...

Yeah, actually now that I think about it, I think the guy I shoot with did modify his.
 
"...legally put a fourth round..." Get caught with more than 3 rounds in the gun while hunting migratory birds(anything in Ontario), on either side of the border, and you'll be arrested.
 
Yep called floating the fourth. Only some semis can do it, get caught doing it on waterfowl and it'll be big fines for sure, not worth it anyways most times, the birds will already be out of range . Older benellis, some winchesters can do it. Guys use it for spring snow goose hunting in the states where they are allowed un plugged guns.

I do it when shooting starlings becuase how fast the cycling system is on sx2s and sx3s, I can get 4 shots off in no times into a big flock of them.
 
pharaoh2 said:
The law reads 2 in the magazine, 1 in the chamber for a total of 3 shots max..
Click to expand...

Hey Pharaoh, no it doesn't. (And no, I'm not a lawyer & I am not trying to argue, just debate.)

The Migratory Bird Regs & Ontario Game Laws say "three shells in the chamber and magazine combined"

It mentions nothing about the elevator & the elevator is most certainly not the magazine or chamber...

IMHO, if the law said, "no shotgun may hold more than 3 rounds", then it would be clear cut. But they screw it up IMHO by specifying where those 3 rounds can be, one in the chamber & 2 in the magazine... It leaves it open to interpretation & I believe it's a loophole that they didn't consider...

And, FYI, it works on the Russian Baikal MP153...

As for whether this is a "useful" thing... I can think of numerous times that ducks have hit the water & needed finishing. The fourth shell would be useful IMHO.

Cheers
Jay
 
Jay said:
...The Migratory Bird Regs & Ontario Game Laws say "three shells in the chamber and magazine combined"

It mentions nothing about the elevator & the elevator is most certainly not the magazine or chamber...
Click to expand...

It could be argued that the elevator is part of the magazine. Doing as you suggest effectively provides for one in the chamber and three in reserve, i.e. four shells in the chamber and magazine combined.

I wouldn't want to have to defend myself with a "loophole" defense and just prefer to hunt with three shots before I need to reload.
 
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