RAMP - What does everyone think?

The RAMP feedback card does not provide adequate space to voice opinion of the program,

:D Actually.......


I drove out to another RAMP property just for a quick tour on Wednesday. I brought my rifle and bino's but I was planning on hunting another ranch I have access to, but I thought I would drive around looking for others using the spot, (There were a few) just to see.

I had to laugh when I pulled up to the sign in station to fill out my card. Someone left their card, both sides still attached filled out sitting on top of the stack of cards. I didn't look at his name or personal info, rather I happened to notice in the comment section his opinion. "I'm tired of the BS of this socialist government" was written in there. At first I thought he was against the RAMP program and I thought to myself if your against it, why are you here? Then I realized the guy was probably just an ass clown. :D
 
Oh, I forgot to add:

So, in the spirit that one should argue from a place of knowledge and experience, I hunted at Big Bend Colony for birds.

I signed in and went hunting. No birds found. Over grazed, generally moderate habitat except for some small drainage areas that still had some willows that the cattle had not pounded into the ground. I will not hunt there again as I still know a dozen or more places with better habitat that are not part of RAMP.
 
I've been thinking that a better framework for access and habitat issues might look like this:

Survey/assess a piece of land. Identify the baseline acreage on that land that represents accessible habitat for wildlife species of interest, such as game birds and big game, waterfowl etc.

Create an access framework whereby the landowner agrees to allow access to that habitat for sportsmen. Reasonable restrictions involving safety zones, vehicle access, number of simultaneous users and so forth would be acceptable.

Compensate the landowner on the baseline acreage for habitat, with increasing incentives and compensation for additional acreage being reclaimed or converted to suitable habitat. The scale of compensation might be based on the existing use of the land; if it is cultivated for example, some measure of the crop value might be a good start.

This scheme might actually anchor and in some cases stimulate habitat creation and maintenance, with the root of the incentive for the landowner being tied both to habitat and access.
 
Oh, I forgot to add:

So, in the spirit that one should argue from a place of knowledge and experience, I hunted at Big Bend Colony for birds.

I signed in and went hunting. No birds found. Over grazed, generally moderate habitat except for some small drainage areas that still had some willows that the cattle had not pounded into the ground. I will not hunt there again as I still know a dozen or more places with better habitat that are not part of RAMP.

There's a great example of my idea; the incentive should not be based solely on user access, but at least equally on extent and quality of habitat.
 
The "New to Hunting" arguement is another strawman. I quit hunting in my early 20's and then started again 7 years ago. EVERY piece of private property I hunt now(Combined around 18 sections) and most public land I hunt, is terrain I found by knocking on doors and research. Finding new hunting areas is not difficult and for the most part an enjoyable pursuit.

I understand that there is work involved and new hunters need to learn the ropes but I suspect that the majority of people using RAMP are not new hunters.
 
To be honest I would be happy with a program that rewarded habitit promotion or preservation, that had no access component to it whatsoever.

I think you'd be deafened by the howls from hunters that landowners are getting paid to improve their own private hunting grounds in that case.
 
Ramp allows landowners a payment for doing things no different then they have been doing for the last 25 years. There is no new access to land that i am aware of. the landowners aren't enhancing habitat. In my opinion there never was an access problem in the 2 zones that are in the program.
If landowners are willing to enhance there habitat, that is when they could get some kickback. This program is already in place. A friend of mine re seeded broke land to native grass (as close as possible) and got some incentive from the govt.
We don't need a new "improved" program.
 
I think you'd be deafened by the howls from hunters that landowners are getting paid to improve their own private hunting grounds in that case.

And I'm sure those that howl, would be right in some cases. But attaching access to money like RAMP, comodifies hunting or the animals.

I would rather see Hunting approached as a management tool. If a landowner wants to access crop damage money,he has to prove he allows hunting.
 
On the crop damage issue I agree 110%.

@guido: I'd be interested to hear about habitat enhancement or reclamation programs in existence that I'm not aware of...
 
Silverado,
I will ask the next time I see him. I know he bought some land that was previously broke and I know he at least got paid for the cost of seeding.

I'm guessing that is likely part of the "greencover" initiative that the feds were hooked up in - it has survived in different iterations over the past 25 years or so.
There was a period that you could receive 125 per acre to "re-grass" marginal land that was in crops.
I don't think anything like this exists currently though, perhaps someone else knows more information?

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with a sytem like RAMP that further puts recreational users (hunters) further out of touch with what is happening on the land. It is very important in my mind to make the connections and relationships with landowners - maybe we need to teach folks how to better do that - but I have always found if your parents brought you up right, you likely have the tools needed to knock on a door or pick up a phone and humbly introduce yourself.....
 
Maybe your idea has some merit norskie, let's run with that for a minute.

Perhaps SRD should create a landowner's contact tool of some kind; something that makes it a bit easier to identify where accessible land exists, who owns it, how to get in touch to request access, and what restrictions may exist.

I wouldn't mind an increase in licenses of a few dollars, if I knew the extra money was going to that kind of initiative.

Perhaps eligibility for crop damage relief could be linked to participation in such a scheme.
 
I'm guessing that is likely part of the "greencover" initiative that the feds were hooked up in - it has survived in different iterations over the past 25 years or so.
There was a period that you could receive 125 per acre to "re-grass" marginal land that was in crops.
I don't think anything like this exists currently though, perhaps someone else knows more information?

My example was about 5 years ago. And is on marginal dryland. Sounds like it may be the program.
 
Maybe your idea has some merit norskie, let's run with that for a minute.

Perhaps SRD should create a landowner's contact tool of some kind; something that makes it a bit easier to identify where accessible land exists, who owns it, how to get in touch to request access, and what restrictions may exist.

.

I use county an M.D. maps and they are a huge help in finding landowners. Sometimes there are only numbers on the maps though, so it's tough to find a phone # for them. Is there a list somewhere to find out a contact for these numbers on the map?
 
Perhaps SRD should create a landowner's contact tool of some kind; something that makes it a bit easier to identify where accessible land exists, who owns it, how to get in touch to request access, and what restrictions may exist.

The recreational access to public land map on the SRD site does exactly this for people looking to access grazing leases. Not much of a stretch to see this same technology applied to other aspects of property and access.
 
Maybe your idea has some merit norskie, let's run with that for a minute.

Perhaps SRD should create a landowner's contact tool of some kind; something that makes it a bit easier to identify where accessible land exists, who owns it, how to get in touch to request access, and what restrictions may exist.

I wouldn't mind an increase in licenses of a few dollars, if I knew the extra money was going to that kind of initiative.

Perhaps eligibility for crop damage relief could be linked to participation in such a scheme.

Access is one issue, and habitat is quite another. Morton wants to link them because he knows the access component would fall on deaf ears unless it is sold under the auspices of something that everyone might find acceptable - like habitat.

I mentioned the idea of additional training/information being offered to young hunters as a means of possibly bolstering new hunters to Morton during one of the Open Spaces meetings. He listened and promptly went on to suggest the merits of his brain child. He doesn't care. this is strictly about advancing his ideological principles and or patronage to folks that helped bankroll his past leadership bid. IMHO

If you want to talk about improving access opportunities to hunters, I really believe we can improve how we interact with landowners to secure access, and likely create more opportunity without having to "buy it". In the "good times" economy it has been easy to condition us to just throw money at any issue to make them go away. The access issue down here is not as prevalent as Morton would like you to believe. I cold called 13 landowners on the ridge two years ago to hunt birds and was granted permission to hunt on all parcels - with one condition on one property to stay out of the quarter that his house was on. I did not know any of these landowners prior to that first call.

In my opinion a system that really takes the hunter training to a new level by having a requirement of a certain # of hours of hands-on to certify - spent between some range time, information sessions on determining who owns land (eg - using land maps to scout areas) coupled with a bit of training on how to "cold call" landowners with a finishing piece kind of tying in the whole circle and how we are but one small piece in the process. I would finish this with having the kid pick an area, do some calling and secure permission for a hunt. This would take some time and additional volunteers, but I believe the end result would likely be a wholesale change in the perception of both landowners and hunters.
This could easily be dove tailed in with a first time hunter program AHEIA runs where they take first timers out to hunt.

The database you mention is a good idea, but I fear that the lazy tendencies of people in general would mean some areas would get heavy pressure while others would fall by the wayside. IMO

I think by educating young hunters and equipping the with the correct tools we keep the human touch.
 
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