night hunter shot while jack-lighting!

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It was an accident nothing more

Don't put down night hunting as mentioned already if done right and safely there is nothing wrong with it.

Most if not all wild boar hunting in most of Europe is done at night, with lights, and or NV scopes, this is because the boar come out at night to eat the crops, and you will not find them during the day, as they are mostly sleeping.....

It's funny how we can at times be our own worst enemies, and make it easy for others to take away even more of what little we have.

No lights or NV allowed in many places. You're forgetting it's done from tree blinds/fortresses over bait at close range,under 100 yards. That's the reason many Euro optics have an 8x56 scope in their line with #1 post reticle. Wild boar are not nocturnal,BTW. They become that way when hunted hard.

Shooting in the dark with a bullet trajectory parallel to the ground is rarely 100% safe,unless you're a cat. :)
 
No lights or NV allowed in many places. You're forgetting it's done from tree blinds/fortresses over bait at close range,under 100 yards. That's the reason many Euro optics have an 8x56 scope in their line with #1 post reticle. Wild boar are not nocturnal,BTW. They become that way when hunted hard.

Shooting in the dark with a bullet trajectory parallel to the ground is rarely 100% safe,unless you're a cat. :)

Wild boar hunting in the dark and standing on the ground would not be a very smart thing to do to begin with, if they get mad at ya, let's just say I hope you can run really fast.......

I don't know of any hunter that was on just the ground hunting, I did not think I had to mention where one needs to be.

The week of hunting I did was all at night, as this was the only time they came out at, to feast on the corn.

I was trying to illustrate that night hunting if done correctly is and can be safe.

and what happened in the story was an accident.
 
It may be legal but it ain't right .
It is so EASY to walk up to or drive up to a deer or moose transfixed by a powerful light ...but I guess that is the definition of some failed cultures...too much taking the easy way out .
These so-called rights were imposed on US most probably by Liberal appointed judges .
 
If they claim its their "Heritage" rights then lets set some rules..
No firearms of any kind, use a ***home made*** long bow, since there were no sporting goods stores in the old days to buy from. And while we're at it, no spotlights or trucks either. Sure as he!! didn't have those back then.

a good buddy of mine has said for years-

"white man's tools...white man's rules"

I'd go along with that...wouldn't mind sittin in my treestand on a fullmoon night with my recurve either...if it was legal...for me
 
Latest news on this is that two different hunting parties, one not aware of the other, resulted in the shooting. Apparently a man has been charged with criminal negligence causing death. I heard this on the local cbc radio.
 
y'know it ain't always as bad as it sounds...

I worked with a fella up North years ago that took a moose for meat every year with a .22 and a dinky little D cell flashlight.
he called em in the dark on the edge of water and when it got close enough,on came the light and in the eye with the .22
no group hunting,just him and the flashlight bearer,side by each.
he is treaty,and a true subsistence hunter,though likely a far cry from what most folks think of as night hunters.
he didn't like the taste of liquor and his family used every inch of the moose...
good gun owners don't like gettin painted with the same brush as the bad ones...
just sayin...
 
We do a lot of spotlight hunting here in Australia, usually foxes, hares and rabbits, and are super careful about the way we do it.
Most of it is done from a pickup truck and when it's done on foot hunters either stay in a tight group or in a strictly agreed formation.
I can tell you that anyone who breaks protocol when on a spotlight hunt is not invited to come again.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tracker
You got to be kidding, who is the brain dead that wrote that. Shooting a rifle that goes 5 miles at night is ok unless it is dangerous to do so? Where is the common sense in that and when would it not be dangerous.
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Well - it reflects a recent Supreme Court of Canada decision - when the highest court in the country says so.....

Full text: http://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/2006/2006scc59/2006scc59.html

Summary:

R. v. Morris

[2005: October 14; 2006: December 21.

Present: McLachlin C.J. and Bastarache, Binnie, Deschamps, Fish, Abella and Charron JJ.

on appeal from the court of appeal for british columbia

Aboriginal law — Treaty rights — Right to hunt — Two members of Tsartlip Indian Band charged under provincial wildlife legislation of hunting with firearm during prohibited hours and hunting with illuminating device — Whether treaty right to hunt includes right to hunt at night with illuminating device — Whether provincial legislation of general application infringes band’s treaty right to hunt — Whether provincial legislation applicable to band by virtue of s. 88 of Indian Act — Wildlife Act, S.B.C. 1982, c. 57, ss. 27(1)(d), (e), 29 — Indian Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. I‑5, s. 88.



Constitutional law — Indians — Provincial wildlife legislation — Two members of Tsartlip Indian Band charged under provincial wildlife legislation of hunting with firearm during prohibited hours and hunting with illuminating device — Whether valid provincial legislation of general application inapplicable to band because it interferes with band’s treaty right to hunt — Whether provincial legislation nonetheless applicable by virtue of s. 88 of Indian Act — Constitution Act, 1867, ss. 91(24), 92(13) — Indian Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. I‑5, s. 88 — Wildlife Act, S.B.C. 1982, c. 57, s. 27(1)(d), (e).


The accused, both members of the Tsartlip Indian Band of the Saanich Nation, were hunting at night when they shot at a decoy deer set up by provincial conservation officers to trap illegal hunters. They were arrested and charged with several offences under British Columbia’s Wildlife Act, including: (1) hunting wildlife with a firearm during prohibited hours (s. 27(1)(d)); (2) hunting by the use or with the aid of a light or illuminating device (s. 27(1)(e)); and (3) hunting without reasonable consideration for the lives, safety or property of other persons (s. 29). At trial, as a defence to the charges under s. 27(1), the accused raised their right “to hunt over the unoccupied lands . . . as formerly” under the North Saanich Treaty of 1852. They also introduced evidence that the particular night hunt for which they were charged was not dangerous. The trial judge found that “night hunting with illumination was one of the various methods employed by the Tsartlip [people] from time immemorial”. However, despite the evidence that night hunting by Tsartlip hunters had yet to result in an accident, he nonetheless concluded that the accused did not have a treaty right to hunt at night because hunting at night with an illuminating device was “inherently unsafe”. The trial judge entered convictions on count 1, conditionally stayed count 2 because of the rule against multiple convictions arising from the same delict, and entered acquittals on count 3. Both the summary conviction appeal judge and the majority of the Court of Appeal upheld the convictions based on the prohibition of night hunting (s. 27(1)(d)).


Held (McLachlin C.J. and Bastarache and Fish JJ. dissenting): The appeal should be allowed. The convictions are set aside and acquittals entered.

Per Binnie, Deschamps, Abella and Charron JJ.: The Tsartlip’s right to hunt at night with the aid of illuminating devices is protected by the North Saanich Treaty. The historical context indicates that the parties intended the treaty to include the full panoply of hunting practices in which the Tsartlip people had engaged before they agreed to relinquish control over their lands. One of those practices was night hunting and, as the trial judge acknowledged, night hunting by the Tsartlip includes, and always has included, night hunting with the aid of illuminating devices. Even on a literal construction, the language of the treaty supports the view that the right to hunt “as formerly” means the right to hunt according to the methods used by the Tsartlip at the time of and before the treaty. The right of the Tsartlip to hunt at night with illuminating devices has of necessity evolved from its pre‑treaty tools to its current implements, and the use of guns, spotlights, and motor vehicles reflects the current state of the evolution of the Tsartlip’s historic hunting practices. However, it is acknowledged that it could not have been within the common intention of the parties that the Tsartlip would be granted a right to hunt dangerously, since no treaty confers on its beneficiaries a right to put human lives in danger. This is confirmed by the language of the treaty itself, which restricts hunting to “unoccupied lands”, away from any town or settlement. Since British Columbia is a very large province, it cannot plausibly be said that a night hunt with illumination is unsafe everywhere and in all circumstances, even within the treaty area at issue in this case. Accordingly, while s. 29 of the Wildlife Act, which prohibits hunting or trapping “without reasonable consideration for the lives, safety or property of other persons”, is a limit that does not impair the treaty rights of aboriginal hunters and trappers, paras. (d) and (e) of s. 27(1), which apply without exception to the whole province, are overbroad and infringe the treaty right to hunt. Something less than an absolute prohibition on night hunting can address the concern for safety. [14] [25‑35] [40] [59]

The relevant provisions of the Wildlife Act are valid provincial legislation under s. 92(13) of the Constitution Act, 1867. Since treaty rights to hunt lie squarely within federal jurisdiction, provincial laws of general application that are inapplicable because they impair “Indianness” may nonetheless be found to be applicable by incorporation under s. 88 of the Indian Act. While, on its face, s. 88 cannot be used to incorporate into federal law provincial laws that conflict with the terms of any treaty, the provinces may regulate treaty rights under certain circumstances. Provincial legislation of general application that interferes in an insignificant way with the exercise of that right do not infringe the right; but where, as in the case of s. 27(1)(d) and (e), such legislation is found to conflict with a treaty in a way that constitutes a prima facie infringement, the protection of treaty rights prevails and the provincial law cannot be incorporated under s. 88 of the Indian Act. [42‑46] [50] [54]

Per McLachlin C.J. and Bastarache and Fish JJ. (dissenting): The impugned ban on night hunting with a firearm (s. 27(1)(d)) is valid provincial legislation that applies to the accused. [82]

The Wildlife Act falls in pith and substance within the province’s powers. It is not directed at a federal head, like Indians, but more generally at safety, a matter within provincial power. The ban on night hunting is an integrated part of a broader provincial scheme applicable to all British Columbians and aimed at assuring the safety of the province’s hunters and residents. Since this provision does not conflict with federal legislation, the doctrine of paramountcy has no application. Finally, where a provincial law of general application does not affect a treaty right, and does not otherwise touch upon core Indianness, that law applies ex proprio vigore, without recourse to s. 88 of the Indian Act. Provincial legislation that falls outside the internal limits on the treaty right that the parties to the treaty would have understood and intended does not encroach on the treaty right. [82] [87] [92]

A treaty must be interpreted in a manner that best reconciles the interests of the parties to it. The right to hunt protected by the treaty is subject to an internal limit: it does not include the right to hunt in an inherently hazardous manner. Rather, the right to hunt must be exercised reasonably. Although, at the time the treaty was signed, the practice of hunting at night did not pose the same dangers as it does today, the parties to the treaty must have understood that the right to hunt did not carry with it a right to hunt dangerously. Furthermore, just as the methods and means of exercising the right should not be frozen in time, neither should the government’s legitimate safety concerns. Adapting the exercise of treaty rights to modern weaponry without adapting the corollary legitimate safety concerns would lead to unacceptable results. [82] [108] [110] [115]

Here, s. 27(1)(d) of the Wildlife Act regulates the internal safety limit on the treaty right of the accused. A ban on night hunting with a firearm is a reasonable exercise of the Province’s regulatory power in defining this internal limit. Since the regulation of dangerous hunting falls outside the scope of the treaty right to hunt, no treaty right is engaged. Accordingly, as no aboriginal right is asserted, and as the provincial law does not otherwise go to Indianness, the law applies ex proprio vigore. [82] [129] [132]
 
i just wanted to share a bit here as i am a first nation hunter & feel some of the commentary has gone a bit far with respect to this particular story.

regardless of our feelings of what first nations are permitted re hunting, the fact is a man lost his life. there is more to this story that is for sure. some of it is already noted, the guy was retrieving 2 moose already down (dont know what time that happened but i do know the area and wolves will make short work of downed animals) when he was shot by another group out that night. it's noted in the news articles that he is a dad and has brought meat home for his community. i know some folks from sagkeeng, not many hunt and i do know some of the ones that do. they hunt for their families and their community. it's going to be hard in the days to come for this guys family, he had a big one. they are experiencing a loss not all of us go through at that particular age. dunno why most folks post things similar to " damn poacher got what he deserved" but i'm more inclined to say "our condolences go out to your family at this time". we're human too, we hurt when things like this happen. i'm sure your families would like to be afforded the same courtesy in the event you die prematurely.

not all first nation people hunt. i'm from a community of approx 3500 & there are not too many of us that do go out. i hunt elk a lot because i share a lot of it out. my treaty rights permit me to hunt all year if i want, but it's never nice to open up a cow elk around this time of year and find a fetus so most of my hunting happens from july to december. and if we do go out at night, and we can if we do so on crown land, we do this in as safe a manner as we can. we are surrounded to our north/west/east by bush & swamp and because we know the area we are confident about taking shots. you certainly dont start letting off in the middle of farm country & you make certain you know what you are shooting at. however, going out at night is not the norm as many believe. it happens but i see more guys going out at first light, you can catch elk or deer coming back to the bush from fields an such at this time. we've sat on cutlines and have practically had herds run us over.

i also hunt with non-first nation fellas. it's interesting when you see the realizations of how similar we are to each other on the topic of hunting. a couple of years back we set up our camp and used a teepee, now that turned heads i tell you. and it was nice to share this. we had a couple of guys who work for the border service camp with us & they loved it. hunting can connect us but i also see misunderstandings or resentment drive us apart.

i hunt for different reasons but they are all connected. i hunt to feed my family. i hunt because we prefer wild game as opposed to domestic livestock. i hunt because it's in us to do so & that is how my dad and uncles and grandpa's brought us up. i hunt because it allows me to put my feet on the ground and to enjoy that connection to the land. i didnt personally know this particular guy but i'm sure he must have felt the same things being out on the land. we've had so many changes to our situation since being "discovered" that it is a nice perk to have (hunting year round that is) and i for one am grateful my ancestors had the foresight to work this particular right into our treaties. no liberal politician did this for us, we secured this in our treaties way back and those treaties are protected by law.

practicing our hunting rights in a safe manner is all our responsibility, no matter what color we are. perhaps we can also support each other in times like this by being respectful of the family who has lost their son, a husband, an uncle and a father. no matter what circumstances befall us at the time we depart this world, it would be nice to think we can practice compassion for our fellow human beings. i'm not asking that everyone jump in their pickups and race off to this guys wake and funeral. but maybe we can limit what we post re personal opinions on hunting rights afforded to first nations. the guy did not have a 5 yr old kid bent over in the field, he was retrieving animals that would have fed his family and community. no matter how we feel about the time that this accident occurred, we need to take into account that he did not do anything that deserved getting shot & killed.

miigwetch (that's "thanks" in our language)
 
Anti native remarks no, more like the rules need to be changed. I read the posts . and i feel its more anti system than anti native.
 
If it was legal for me to jacklight, I still wouldn't do it because for me there is more to hunting than shooting an animal. But for these folks hunting is about getting groceries not sport, and fair chase does not enter the equation. Combining jacklighting with pushing bush is going to get somebody killed though, there's no way around it. If hunting in the bush, in the dark is going to be contemplated, perhaps a page should be taken from the African play book. Put out bait, set up a blind, settle in and quietly wait for your animal.

Interesting thread ...

Otokiak
Rankin Inlet, NU
CANADA

Otokiak, just out of curiosity, what are the rules in Nunavut concerning shooting after dark? The shortest day in Churchill has about 5 hours of daylight, you guys in Rankin probably have an hour less than we do, and Resolute has 24 hours of darkness. I'm sure if the rules were the same for northern Nunavut as for southern Canada there would be no shooting from late November until February, but then again the Inuit don't push bush.
 
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