1911 Grip Safety - Why ??

Iron Glove

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I'm probably gonna look dumb for asking, but what really is the purpose of the grip safety on a 1911 ?
Is this not superfluous to the thumb safety ?
I have numerous handguns and no other ones have a grip safety - heck my Tokarev has no safety at all.
 
Well, I'm sure there are official theories that it helps to prevent accidental discharges if the pistol was to perhaps be loaded, and fall on to a hard surface: no hand on the grip, hammer shouldn't fall.

I have a slightly spiteful dislike of the antiquated 1911 design, so my personal theory is that by having to make sure you are squeezing the grip with enough pressure to trip the grip safety, the operator is less likely to suffer "limp wristed" failures with the sub-optimal design.

But again, I don't like 1911s, and some people really do.

;)
 
not all 1911s have the grip safety- the argentine and the star variations have theirs pinned shut, to name a couple- it's something the us army spec'd in their mods for prevention of a/ds- i've never actually notied one way or the other
 
Because that's how John wanted them........;)

Perhaps he wanted a design that in no way could discharge until the owner had a firm hold of the grip ??????

Just a stab though, I really have no idea :D
 
The US military had horse mounted cavalry troops in mind when they adopted the 1911 design. The grip safety was specified so a gun would not discharge if dropped. You have to remember - most of the generals from that time were still in the mind set of the Civil war, Indian wars, Mexican uprising etc. They were thinking of previous wars but not looking ahead to future encounters.
 
The 1911 was developed as part of Colt's effort to secure a big military contract. The US Army wanted the grip safety (and the button mag release) they'd seen on the Luger/Parabellum pistol added, and Colt did it. The idea behind it is to provide a safety that would be in place even if the manual safety wasn't -- an early version of the automatically engaged safety commonly seen on pistols now. You have to hold the gun in a firm firing grip to make sure that the grip safety is made "off". If the gun is dropped with the hammer cocked, it's relatively difficult to jar it loose because of the grip safety. But only relatively difficult. It can happen. The vagueness of that protection led to the incorporation in the 1970 model of an automatic firing pin block. Since the 1920s, various European pistols used firing pin blocks as manual safeties, as on the 1929 Walther PP. Automatic firing pin blocks are now very common on most handguns. The firing pin can't be released until the trigger is moved all the way to the rear. The Soviets simply thought they didn't need a safety on their Tokarevs, but they came to use them on their post-war non-Tokarev pistols like the Makarov. Safeties have repeatedly been shown to save lives in one way or another. Although some shooters (mostly "combat" competition folks) pin the 1911 grip safety so that it's inoperable, and others never engage manual safeties, it really is a risky practice.
 
1911 is the best gun ever built and if you look around today to every gun on the market all are built the same way Mr John Browning done his 1911 autos 100 years ago.....believe me, nothing changed !
 
Ummm, that's Saint John :D

+1

Very much so.... :p

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif

NAA.
 
I like the grip safeties on the 1911 and the 1910 Brownings. Impossible to fire the pistol if you are not correctly gripping it yet you do not need to do anything special to engage that safety correctly... They make much more sense that a "safety" lever on the trigger face like in the Glocks and others.
 
1911 is the best gun ever built and if you look around today to every gun on the market all are built the same way Mr John Browning done his 1911 autos 100 years ago.....believe me, nothing changed !

The Browning tilt action is incorporated into most designs and that is it. The rest of the design is outdated and has been surpassed for many years.

TDC
 
funny, i always thought the automatic firing pin block was on the SERIES 80 -NOT THE SERIES 70- and the later series at that - mine is one of the last( circa 84) series 70 and there is no firing pin block
 
The grip safety was added so the gun could be carried in condition #1 round chambered hammer back safety on and holstered. It adds a level of security that the gun must be under the control of the hand before being fired. Saves time in combat.
 
The grip safety was only added because some higher up in the calvery wanted it. No other reason. It was not in Saint Johns original design, since the safety is what blocks the sear and hammer and keeps the gun from going off accidentaly. With the safety on the grip safety serves no real purpose, since you can't fire the gun with safety on, but turn the safety off and it is possible for the gun to go off, if the grip safety is ingaged or not ie;(dropped, hit, jarred).
 
The Browning tilt action is incorporated into most designs and that is it. The rest of the design is outdated and has been surpassed for many years.

TDC

That, and the final tilt design was perfected in the P-35, his final masterpiece. The swinging link is not a virtue. At least it only has one of them, rather then two like the 1905 and (i believe) 08 did.
 
"t-star", you're right. I remembered wrongly. The firing pin block on the 1911 originated in the Model 80 and not in the Model 70. The basis of the point I made wrongly was that it was recognized that depending on the grip safety was an inadequate defense. Of course, it can well be argued that careless or foolish handling of any firearm is what causes problems, and that will never be corrected by any mechanical device. Still, companies that make these guns must take some reasonable precautions, and in the 1911, the manual safety, grip safety and the firing pin block are what they do.

Personally, I find the built-in safety (and the overall design) of the H&K P7 far superior. John Browning was good, but mostly in terms of making pistol manufacturing far more economical than his contemporaries were able to do, and his designs, as well as others from that period, have for a long time not been state-of-the-art. And it's worth remembering that a Belgian engineer at FN took Browning's original design and made the High Power the favorite it became. Browning was very good, but there are a lot of other designers who are also very good.
 
If you look on the Novak web-site, they now have an item called "The Answer". It is the beavertail and mainspring houseing all in one piece, no tilt on the safety anymore.
 
1911 is the best gun ever built and if you look around today to every gun on the market all are built the same way Mr John Browning done his 1911 autos 100 years ago.....believe me, nothing changed !

So how come JMB REMOVED the grip safety from his SUPERIOR subsequent design, with the GP35?

(Just pokin' at ya'!) ;)
 
So how come JMB REMOVED the grip safety from his SUPERIOR subsequent design, with the GP35?

(Just pokin' at ya'!) ;)
Likely because he had been dead for seven years when the P 35 design was finalized by Sauve. Most likely because the P 35 wsn't designed for the US Army and even more likely Colt held the patients still on the 1911 design.

Take Care

Bob
 
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