Was there a British issue WWII REVOLVER you could use 9mm ammo in?

nntw

nntw

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My father was a WWII paratrooper with First Polish Brigade. I know he was using British kit- Lee Enfield, Bren, Sten.

However, as I understood it the Bren gunner was issued with a sidearm also.

I think my dad said they were issued with Colt 1911s for a time, then revolvers. I THINK he said that they used Sten ammo, which would mean 9mm, in the revolvers.

I'm wondering if he was kidding me; seems to me the cartridge design would be wrong for a revolver's extractor, and also that although the two rounds are similar in size, you can't swap them over.

Any comments from the military experts would be appreciated!
 
nntw said:
My father was a WWII paratrooper with First Polish Brigade. I know he was using British kit- Lee Enfield, Bren, Sten.

However, as I understood it the Bren gunner was issued with a sidearm also.

I think my dad said they were issued with Colt 1911s for a time, then revolvers. I THINK he said that they used Sten ammo, which would mean 9mm, in the revolvers.

I'm wondering if he was kidding me; seems to me the cartridge design would be wrong for a revolver's extractor, and also that although the two rounds are similar in size, you can't swap them over.

Any comments from the military experts would be appreciated!
Click to expand...

Might be mistaking 9 para for .380/200 revolver ammunition.
 
A large number of Colt 1911's were shipped to the UK during World War 2. The 1st Canadian Parachute Regiment was issued with 1943 manufactured Colt 1911A1's in .45acp. As they were also part of the British Airborne Division it is very plausible that the poles also carried the 1911A1. The Inglis Browning 9mm pistol was not issued to Canadian Forces until Oct 1944, don't know about other allied armies.

9mm fired in a handgun built to shoot .38/200 revolver ammunition would be an accident waiting to happen because of different pressures generated by the 2 different cartridges.
 
Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure that my dad usually carried the Bren- I don't think he did- so he could well have got it wrong.

He passed away Nov 13, 2008, so I can no longer ask him. : (
 
What he said is exactly correct. he had a 38S&W Webley and it was fairly common for them to load them with 9mm. The ammo fits perfectly.

They did not know that 38 was a 13,000 psi load and the 9mm ammo was 35,000 psi.

As stated above, an accident waiting to happen. It would be just like shooting 357mag in a 38 Spl.

I have never done it, but I have verified the perfect fit and i have fired primed cases just to prove they will shoot. Below is a picture of both kinds of ammo in my Webley.

I have, over the years, had several old timers tell me that this is what they did. Some knew they were doing the wrong thing and others seemed to think that one was the rimless version of the other.

9mmin38SW1.jpg
 
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oh s**t- very bad... as far as I know he never fired a revolver that way- good thing too.

still, someone must have told them that it was okay. soldiers ARE expendable, right...
 
Tests were done useing 9mm in Enfields and S&Ws in Canada in 1942. Tests showed that "the .38 pistol is insuufficientely strong for extended use with 9mm ammunition" and the project was dropped.
 
green said:
Tests were done useing 9mm in Enfields and S&Ws in Canada in 1942. Tests showed that "the .38 pistol is insuufficientely strong for extended use with 9mm ammunition" and the project was dropped.
Click to expand...

Not strong enough for extended use, but it may well have been deliberately put to them as a field expedient that, "If you are out of .380 revolver ammo, the 9mm pistol/sten ammo will work in your Webley/Enfield."
 
Thanks for all the detailed replies.

So now I'm wondering if maybe he was issued with the revolver FIRST, then later the 1911s. Might make more sense.

Thanks again!!!
 
I read somewhere that the officer was issued the pistol and very few rounds for it and told basically, "Have a nice war".

Very little extra ammo. So, they had to find something else that would go bang or the gun was basically useless.

Wow...is 9mm really 35000psi?? Didn't realize it was that hot.
 
I was just guessing at the numbers. I just looked it up in the SAAMI specs.

38 S&W 14,500 psi

9mm 35,000

9mm +P 38,500


Sobering, isn't it. Not for extended use? Seeing these numbers, i would not try it even once. But maybe the cylinder gap acted like a pressure relief?
 
Mr. Ganderite has given his usual correct answer. Yes, the 9mm can be used in a 38 S&W, just push the empties out with something, but the 9mm are a might strong for that gun!
 
Sure they may have been over-pressured, but I'm sure there are Germans with holes in them somewhere who would argue their effectiveness.
 
The Chairman of the British Pistol Club, Gp-Capt Gilpin, recalled that his lot of pilots used to do this in North Africa, shaking them back down after every shot, as they couldn't get .38s for practice, until he knocked off a crate of it from somewhere.
 
when i was a kid, my dads buddy had an old webley tanker in 380. his kid, who was a few years older than me, wanted to try it out. 9mm ammo seemed to fit just fine. first round blew the backtopstrap apart. never hurt him, but sure messed up the gun. you didnt just go get parts for that gun then, and i remember my father welding the backstrap / topstrap back together and makeing it fight right again. the gun is now hanging in a legion on display. we shot it lots after it was fixed, with the PROPER ammo
 
I suppose it's an easy mistake/assumption to make as a field expedient, and with limited supply chain for the proper ammo, individual soldiers would have been stuck scrounging ammo off of dead Germans, realized "close enough", and never thought twice about it.
 
They used to nip the base of the 9mm with side cutters so they would not fall into the chamber of the 38 and they will fire that way...not a safe thing to do but if you are in battle and no ammo..........
 
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