Slide Stop Slide Drop question

[andrei]

The real question is, why would you want to close the slide on an empty chamber with an empty magazine inserted??

TDC

Nah I think the real question is WHY NOT?

Sometimes I sit around at home cleaning the gun and I like to play with it. I like pulling the slide back with an empty mag and letting it go and point it to a safe spot and dry fire, I want to make it feel as real as possible. Its good practice.

 

[TDC]

Nah I think the real question is WHY NOT?

Sometimes I sit around at home cleaning the gun and I like to play with it. I like pulling the slide back with an empty mag and letting it go and point it to a safe spot and dry fire, I want to make it feel as real as possible. Its good practice.

If you're dry firing you need some snap caps, its the only way to simulate live fire conditions without the noise and awkward discussion with the local PD.

TDC

ETA: I almost forgot. If you can function the pistol(rack slide and/or dry fire) you aren't cleaning it. You're playing with it.

 

[00Buck]

I just dropped the slide on an empty chamber by accident. What's the depreciation value on that? Do I have to sell my pistol on the EE for $5 now?

 

[TDC]

What a load of horse pucky. Where in God's name do you come up with this BS. I guess JMB couldn't wait until you were born so you could enloghten him and the masses.

The real answer is when you are putting the gun away in your safe, perhaps.

Answer me this Bob. How advanced were pistol tactics back in the day? I'm sure at your age you'd remember. The use of the slide stop is a poor tactic on many levels. Ever notice that most pistols offered today(especially polymer ones) all have small slide stops, some appear to be direct copies of the "tiny and inaccessible" slide stop used in Glocks, for example.

Ruger SR9
S&W M&P
Walther p99
Springfield XD
SIG p250
Taurus millennium
Steyr M9
HK P200SL

Oddly, if you compare the above firearms to a Glock, there are a lot of similarities and in some cases identical shapes like the trigger guard, slide stop and square slide. Oddly, all the above are polymer framed as well. I thought polymer guns were just a fad??

Again Bob, I never said I was an SME nor do I play one on T.V. I don't think I have the knowledge to enlighten JMB let alone enloghten him. I know what I know and I can tell you that the use of the slide stop is from a practical standpoint, a poor idea.

As for putting your guns away. Why the need to close the slide? Its common knowledge that springs don't take a set by being compressed as it is cycling the spring(compression and expansion) that causes fatigue and ultimately wear. Springs like magazines are a wearing part and should be replaced regularly. Whether you store your pistol with the action open or closed is irrelevant. Anytime you handle your guns you should handle them in the same manner. If you don't use the slide lock to close the action when at the range, why would you do it at home? Only bad habits can be formed by practicing(even once) a different method than that which you use when competing/working with firearms. Its something called "Hick's law" look it up. As an example I've seen several shooters at a match who during a COF attempt to pocket their empty magazines rather than let them drop free. Clearly the result of two different methods of operating. I believe the high speed guys refer to this as a "training scar". In fact, I've heard from several "in the know" about just such a "training scar" that cost 4 California Highway Patrol officers their lives because they were taught to pocket their empties when reloading.

TDC

 

[bobbyjack]

Take your 1911 down field strip it and then reach into the slide and push in on the extractor and push it out of the back of the slide ,then look at it see how it is a curved peice of spring steel? It is curved and when you install it it goes into a straight drilled hole.

That is its spring set to catch the rim of a shell out of the chamber,when you let it slam shut with out the added lenght of the shell case the extractor slams into the chamber slot with no shell caseing to buffer it.

Soon it will be deformed and you will get ejection problems ,you can pull it out and reset it but you will also get trigger problems doing just such.

Without a round in the mag just ease the slide forward.

Bob

 

[USP]

Jim Jones would be proud of the koolaid served up in the pistol forum as of late....

 

[enefgee]

I just dropped the slide on an empty chamber by accident. What's the depreciation value on that? Do I have to sell my pistol on the EE for $5 now?

No just send it to me, I'll give you $10.00

 

[Doc M]

Jim Jones would be proud of the koolaid served up in the pistol forum as of late....

Ain't that the truth... Sweet #### of Christ, the BS is getting thick in here!

-M

 

[koldt]

The training method that has been adopted by most schools for quite some time is to not utilize the slide stop as a slide release. Reason being, is the manipulation of the slide stop during a deadly force encounter is one of fine motor function. During high stress, the finding and depression of the slide stop may not be the most consistent method of chambering a round. Therefore most are being taught to use the support hand over, push/pull gross movement of the slide, while locked back, to release it after a fully loaded magazine is inserted.

To answer the question of not being able to close a 1911 slide with an empty magazine inserted,,,,, work out kid. It ain't difficult.

 

[Canuck44]

The training method that has been adopted by most schools for quite some time is to not utilize the slide stop as a slide release. QUOTE]

Might have something to do with the small slide stop lever on the Glock and other polymer pistols. I think the small vs large motor skills is a crock frankly, used by instructors to justify their thoughts. How it is more difficult to push the slide stop down with your thumb then it is to reach over and give the slide stop a tug is beyond me. Using terms like large and small motor skills sure is a nice sound bite though. Kind of suggests the instructor has a physio/medical background doesn't it.

Take Care

Bob

 

[RJD]

... Using terms like large and small motor skills sure is a nice sound bite though.
Bob

hahahahaha, sound bites indeed. In all the years I have taught music(bass) and golf, I have never, ever heard the terms "large motor skills" and "small motor skills" used by either, instructors training me to teach others, or by other music teachers and other CPGA professionals that I know.
(I am fully qualified to teach both by the way) And these two activities require a lot of motor skills.

 

[Canuck44]

hahahahaha, sound bites indeed. In all the years I have taught music(bass) and golf, I have never, ever heard the terms "large motor skills" and "small motor skills" used by either, instructors training me to teach others, or by other music teachers and other CPGA professionals that I know.
(I am fully qualified to teach both by the way) And these two activities require a lot of motor skills.

Ah but as you know holding yuor tongue a certain way helps in sinking those five foot puts.

Take Care

Bob

 

[TDC]

The training method that has been adopted by most schools for quite some time is to not utilize the slide stop as a slide release. QUOTE]

Might have something to do with the small slide stop lever on the Glock and other polymer pistols. I think the small vs large motor skills is a crock frankly, used by instructors to justify their thoughts. How it is more difficult to push the slide stop down with your thumb then it is to reach over and give the slide stop a tug is beyond me. Using terms like large and small motor skills sure is a nice sound bite though. Kind of suggests the instructor has a physio/medical background doesn't it.

Take Care

Bob

Tell me Bob, does using the slide stop work for left handed shooters? How about with wet, muddy, or bloody hands? Does using the slide stop guarantee the pistol is loaded? How do you use the slide stop on an HK P7? Do tell Bob, what vast training and/or service credentials do you have to support your opinion???

TDC

 

[RJD]

Ah but as you know holding yuor tongue a certain way helps in sinking those five foot puts.

Take Care

Bob

hahahahahah you wanna mess with a guy's head, ask him if he inhales or exhales before pulling the trigger/putting/swinging. hahahahahaha

 

[maurice]

If you're dry firing you need some snap caps, its the only way to simulate live fire conditions without the noise and awkward discussion with the local PD.

TDC

ETA: I almost forgot. If you can function the pistol(rack slide and/or dry fire) you aren't cleaning it. You're playing with it.

Your parents would call the cops on you??? how much noise would this make coming from the basement?

 

[USP]

Tell me Bob, does using the slide stop work for left handed shooters? How about with wet, muddy, or bloody hands? Does using the slide stop guarantee the pistol is loaded? How do you use the slide stop on an HK P7? Do tell Bob, what vast training and/or service credentials do you have to support your opinion???

TDC

Baiting not allowed. Last warning.

 

[Canuck44]

Tell me Bob, does using the slide stop work for left handed shooters? How about with wet, muddy, or bloody hands? Does using the slide stop guarantee the pistol is loaded? How do you use the slide stop on an HK P7? Do tell Bob, what vast training and/or service credentials do you have to support your opinion???

TDC

Wet bloody hands?????

What movie have you been watching there TDC??

When I shoot my 1911 in competition I release the slide with the slide stop lever; for me it's faster than reaching over the top. How you are others do it is up to you.

I also have enough brains in my head to recognize what I do may not work for everyone, something you obviouosly have yet to learn.


Take Care

Bob

 

[drache]

When I shoot my 1911 in competition I release the slide with the slide stop lever; for me it's faster than reaching over the top. How you are others do it is up to you.

It's how they were teaching at the places where I was shooting handguns.

Anyways it's amazing on this forum that you can ask a simple question and it turns into a flame war within a couple posts

 

[enefgee]

How do you use the slide stop on an HK P7?

Actually you don't, you just release and squeeze the cocking grip and it drops - don't you, I may be wrong, it's been a while.

 

[koldt]

Might have something to do with the small slide stop lever on the Glock and other polymer pistols. I think the small vs large motor skills is a crock frankly, used by instructors to justify their thoughts. How it is more difficult to push the slide stop down with your thumb then it is to reach over and give the slide stop a tug is beyond me. Using terms like large and small motor skills sure is a nice sound bite though. Kind of suggests the instructor has a physio/medical background doesn't it.

Take Care

Bob

Some of the techniques being taught at some schools haven't got a lot to do with competition/IPSC/range type environments. Some schools are taught by people who have actually been in high stress situations on a regular basis. Courses taught by a fellow shooter Jim Cirillo RIP, come to mind. These techniques have speed as a by-product of consistent proper life saving drills, and as mentioned, some of the drills are done with sweat, external atmospheric moisture and various other less than ideal impact agents being introduced including blood from a variety of sources.

Some of these drills include the unload, loading including magazine changes and slide manipulation with gun hand only and then with support hand only. Most recreational shooters need not practice or master these drills, but for Sh & gigs, why not.

Many, many tests and drills have been conducted and are continually studied as to the effects of stress and the loss of fine motor skills. Note, as per others on here who mis-quoted myself, I have not called these small or large motor skills.

These same studies have been carried out not only by various shooting academia, but extensively by LE, military programs, and NASA. The largest of which has been Quantico in Virginia. The loss of fine motor skills during stress induced tests, and therefore replicating a deadly force encounter, is a well documented phenomenon, along with all the normal physical reactions, ie. tunnel vision, noise exclusion, time displacement, rapid heart and breath rates, etc etc. I ain't going to discuss the whole spectrum of stress induced physiological changes.. The studies have been done to death, time and time again. It is real. Sorry internet experts.

Stress and it's by-product should not be ignored by professional people, who are tasked to go into deadly force encounters.

It probably isn't going to be that big of a "problem" for 99.9% of the folks on this board, and that is a good thing. However, because it was mentioned by some as a contributing factor in a re-load of a pistol and scoffed at by others, I thought I would include my drivel as well.

It just ain't that big of an issue for most to worry about. So don't.