cheep .338 lapaua (hope I spelled that right....)

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Rick, I am sure you know that I have been there and done that. And I do shoot VERY far away.

As I mentioned, "unless you want to put a hurt on something", there are better, more accurate options.

Sure a boomer is a boomer and lighting 90gr of powder is alot of fun.

But if a boomer is what they are after, why bother with a little case like the LM?

For the same cost, they can upgrade to an Edge, Improved LM, or better yet 338-416 Rigby improved or even better the 338-408 Chey Tac. Components ARE available and don't cost anymore then the Lapua brass. Plus you have the capacity to make the upcoming (we may be older and greyer but they are coming) BERGER VLD's really move out.

For a lot less muss and fuss, they can get a 338 RUM and do the same thing as a LM.

If horsepower, speed and LR ballistics are the goal, then get something that will deliver.

The 338LM is the 308 of the 338 World. A nice case but if you want horsepower, there are many better options.....

That cost the same to build.... a few extra pennies to shoot... marginally more recoil...pretty much the same barrel wear. WAAYY more performance.

So the real question when people ask about the 338LM, are you looking for a V6 full size truck or something with a real engine?

Let's start discussing 338's that will get the job well and truly DONE.

Jerry
 
Regarding the above post, none of the mentioned calibres are upgrading. .338LM is the Medium Range Sniper round for good reason and none of the mentioned calbres are in use. "Get something that will deliver" is pure BS. Those of us that deal with military around the world occasionaly tune in for comic relief. Now it's back to work on various sniper and longrange projects.
 
rem 700 MLR's are a joke. The barrel is way to short, brake fires way to much gas down, be prepared to eat grass with every shot. Bolt is scary thin when milled for the giant brass, Uses the SAKO style extractor eventhough remington has said this is unsafe for years. The bottom metal/detachable mag mine had was absolute garbage. Mag was ejected with every shot due to recoil. I personally think the hole action flexes as it was not designed for .338 lapua they just made it fit. I put ~500rnds through mine then sold it, never got the accuracy I was looking for beyond 600m.

edit: a decent custom can be built for less then fixing the problems with an MLR
 
There is no point trying to make a cheap factory 338LM-seeking customer see the light on reason, common sense, or the limitations of a factory rifle shooting a lap mag.

It is the same mentality that thinks bigger speakers are better speakers.

Let him spend his money, and then you and I can grab a cheap 416 bolt face action in the EE 6 months from now.
 
Rick, I think what alot of us are saying is:

"If you've gotta ask about saving pennies on a LM, you have no business shooting a big cannon like that." Shooting big is NOT cheap. I'll take a stab that our OP doesn't reload, and factory ammo isn't cheap.


Personally, I think our OP has just played a bit too much Modern Combat. ;)
 
peterdobson said:
Regarding the above post, none of the mentioned calibres are upgrading. .338LM is the Medium Range Sniper round for good reason and none of the mentioned calbres are in use. "Get something that will deliver" is pure BS. Those of us that deal with military around the world occasionaly tune in for comic relief. Now it's back to work on various sniper and longrange projects.
Click to expand...

considering that the OP had nothing to do with military gear, I see no point in your post. Except maybe to show a rather biased point of view.

If what you say in true, then all of us shooting 6BR, 6.5 and 7mm for LR precision competition must be off our rocker.

After all, the real main sniper cartridge in use by Western military is the 308. Then there is the 223. Beyond that, we are just providing lots of amusement.

I am glad that you have a strong insight to the military procurement process but this is PRECISION RIFLE FORUM where we deal in the leading edge of accuracy in CIVILIAN rifles.

You may want to tune in to what is happening in the civy world cause that is where most of the improvements in small arms performance has occured in the last several decades.

Maybe you have heard of SR Benchrest, F class and other outlandish pasttimes.

Which group has pushed massive improvements in 50BMG performance? NATO? The US mililtary? Or a bunch of civy boomer lovers in the US?

Where have all the improvements on the M4/AR/M16 platform come from?

Here is something to mull over: The 338LM is rated at 2700fps with the 300gr MK per SAAMI/CIP. An Edge or improved LM will push the same slug to 2900fps or so.

A 338-416 Rigby improved will push the same slug to 3100fps.

The 338-408CT and its clones will push to 3300fps.

All in similar length barrels. Would this not rate as an IMPROVEMENT IN PERFORMANCE?????

And as for the roots of the 338-416 Rigby improved? This was the precursor in the development of what would eventually become the 338LM.

And the development was for the US MILITARY. You'll need to dial back the clock to the 80's. Civilian contractors to Uncle Sam.

Maybe you have heard of the 6.5 Grendel. Is this being fielded by some operational forces? What's the Brits name again?

I support all the men and women in uniform all around the world They got more B@LLS then I ever will.

However, new ideas and cutting edge tech for small arms accuracy, they are not so strong on... But I am more then happy to share my knowledge to help them come up with better bang sticks

Laugh away :evil:

Jerry
 
Ridiculous, as Hirsch Precision Inc is the official representative of Lapua in Canada and we support FClass, BR, Precision Rifle, are official sponsors of our Olympic Biathlon Team as well as all biathlon teams across Canda. We also work with our national smallbore team, a knowledgeable bunch. We also sponsor some top Fullbore shooters and work with many of them on a regular basis. We also work with CISM and sponsor the Canadian International Sniper Concentration.

You say you will share your knowledge. We, the military and its contractors, don't want it!

You have no idea to the extent of use in Afghanistan.

You state "beyond that, we are just providing amusement". Ludicrous, the CISC is won by .338LM and is an excellent longrange calibre. There will alway be higher perfomance rounds such as 20mm canon, but right now .338LM is hard to beat and the others don't have Lapua brass.

I fund your commnets insulting to our military who, I assure you, know considerably more than you will ever know and it has been a pleasure to deal with them.

P. Dobson
Lapua in Canada
 
mysticplayer said:
Rick, I am sure you know that I have been there and done that. And I do shoot VERY far away.

As I mentioned, "unless you want to put a hurt on something", there are better, more accurate options.

Sure a boomer is a boomer and lighting 90gr of powder is alot of fun.

But if a boomer is what they are after, why bother with a little case like the LM?

For the same cost, they can upgrade to an Edge, Improved LM, or better yet 338-416 Rigby improved or even better the 338-408 Chey Tac. Components ARE available and don't cost anymore then the Lapua brass. Plus you have the capacity to make the upcoming (we may be older and greyer but they are coming) BERGER VLD's really move out.

For a lot less muss and fuss, they can get a 338 RUM and do the same thing as a LM.

If horsepower, speed and LR ballistics are the goal, then get something that will deliver.

The 338LM is the 308 of the 338 World. A nice case but if you want horsepower, there are many better options.....

That cost the same to build.... a few extra pennies to shoot... marginally more recoil...pretty much the same barrel wear. WAAYY more performance.

So the real question when people ask about the 338LM, are you looking for a V6 full size truck or something with a real engine?

Let's start discussing 338's that will get the job well and truly DONE.

Jerry
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Jerry, I'm afraid I really don't understand where you are comming from on this. Many of us do hunt with our LR rigs, and go to the .338 for the reasons you specified. As you well know, a heavier bullet is less affected by wind. I have both light and heavy calibre rifles. The light ones are limited on game, as well as by wind. All of the calibres you mentioned, besides the Lapua and RUM, are true wildcats, and that you state component prices are the same as Lapua is just false. Where in Canada can I easily obtain 338-416 Rigby or Cheytac brass? And for what price? The whole point behind the 338 Lapua is the brass! The Rigby case could not handle the pressure, so the new case was designed. As you also know, the Chey Tac uses a .50 bolt face. Where am I to find a resonably price repeater action for this round? Even by your own numbers, the perfomance gains are not significant enough to justify the extra cost and to invest in something that more than likely won't last. Even your beloved Savage/Stevens now makes a rifle in .338 Lapua. All of the rounds mentioned, with the exception of the RUM, were developed for the military. They have decided on the Lapua round. I am afraid I would have to trust their judgement, as well as other proffesionals, such as Peter Dobson's, long before I trusted yours. Maybe you should stick to shooting your K-Mart rounds out of your K-Mart rifles?

R.
 
mysticplayer said:
26" 7RM pushing 180gr Berger VLD over 3000fps. LR ballistics superior to a 338LM and about 1/2 the cost of shooting and recoil.

Unless you are planning on putting a hurt on something at LR, the 338LM get real tiring real fast...

Jerry
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7mm rm can get ugly pretty fast if you cant handle recoil so I think there might be a bit of pain if you want to go to long range with something that is so powerful, after all, Jerry proved you can walk a 223 out to a mile. or atleast he proved HE can take it to a mile...lol
 
A 223 at a mile the bullet sticks in wood like a dart thrown in a 2x4,, on a pretty good angle, might break skin on a gopher. LOL
 
Rman said:
. Where in Canada can I easily obtain 338-416 Rigby or Cheytac brass? And for what price? R.
Click to expand...

Send me a PM for your brass options. Rigby less money then Lapua. CT a bit money then Lapua.

Hornady, Jamison and Norma now make the Rigby brass and no it is not turn of the century spec stuff. I think this brass will handle standard magnum pressures just fine.

The BIG 338's will continue to be a great LR game getters - I am sure you read my statement about putting a hurt on something. More mass arriving at high velocity means a big thump. No arguments there.

Have a visit at www.longrangehunting.com if you haven't done so. Lots of info about these 338's.

Many who shoot these larger 338's don't seem to have much problem with excellent game getting accuracy at extremely long distances.

Lapua brass is strong and well made but only one component in the accuracy package.

And would you need to run full throttle brass breaking pressures if you had a larger case?????

So the OP question was, is there a cheap 338LM? NO but for the same amount of money, you can get bigger.

Or for much less money, you can get different.

Jerry
 
noneck180 said:
A 223 at a mile the bullet sticks in wood like a dart thrown in a 2x4,, on a pretty good angle, might break skin on a gopher. LOL
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Seeing the bullets hit the rock, going through a 2x4 would be the least of my worries.

Impact velocity on the 80gr Amx is approx 800fps (you can run the JBM program to get a number).

that is impact energy similar to a 22LR at the muzzle.

You would have no issue killing a PD at a mile with this IF you could hit it.

Jerry
 
peter, it is always a pleasure to read your informative and helpful posts.

But no time to debate, FedEx just dropped of a package from USO. Will have to spend some time doing some product testing and write up a review.

Apparently, someone values my opinion :)

Jerry
 
I beg to differ Jer

mysticplayer said:
26" 7RM pushing 180gr Berger VLD over 3000fps. LR ballistics superior to a 338LM and about 1/2 the cost of shooting and recoil.

Unless you are planning on putting a hurt on something at LR, the 338LM get real tiring real fast...

Jerry
Click to expand...


The .338LAI NEVER gets tiring..... Nothing but big grins all day long.......:D:D:D

Also worth every penny of every round!!!!
 
I think there must be something going on of late. maybe not enough shooting time so many of us are going into withdrawl and get #####y.
Seems on the forum lately that everyone is at everyone elses throats:(

To original poster.
The least expensive 338 Lapua will be the Remington, hands down.
They are a decent rifle, but could be and have been reworked into FAR better than what Remington offers out of the box. But that costs additional $$.
The 338 RUM is a close 2nd in overall performance, the weak spot with it is the poor quality brass. 1 can make them shoot well if 1 takes some time and sorts and preps the brass, to many of us our time is too valuable to do that so the Lapua which has match brass readily available appeals.
There are smaller calibers that are more economical to shoot that will go long distance as well, and there are bigger calibers that will go further yet, but the costs continue to rise as horsepower increases.

I am not sure if you posted the intended distances you want to shoot but I know from experience that 338 lapua IS capable of 1 mile work without too much trouble. It is also capable of killing big game at 1 mile, which is ALOT further than most should be even contemplating shoot game at.

Unless you reload the boomers are not "cheap" ( I hate how often that word is used in the gun culture) to shoot and you will never realize the true performance of what the caliber can offer.
 
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