Looking for rifle recommendations
- Thread starter AJCrowley
- Start date
Hey, your humble opinions are what I came here for.
This is a good idea, but my girlfriend isn't crazy about having firearms in the house, so I'm kind of pushing it with wanting two - my rifle, and a handgun.
I'll be on the range way more than I go hunting, so something I can use as a reasonable target rifle is my first priority, and I can't really justify a separate rifle for the once a year I might go hunting (both in terms of cost, and trying to make the missus ok with having it in the house).
Oh boy. You just opened a can of worms, friend.
Or maybe not, this is Precision Rifles, not General Discussion, so you might avoid the usual clamour that arises from those statements. The gist of them being: it's your decision, not hers, and you need to make that clear from the start. I tend to agree with those statements, too.
Good luck.
I know, I know, and I'm sure that's not the first time that this particular issue has been discussed on this board.Oh boy. You just opened a can of worms, friend.
I tend to agree with those statements, too.
Good luck.
I don't consider it to be a big deal though, she's not being unreasonable or #####y about it, guns just make her uncomfortable. She's respecting that this is something I've been interested in since I was a wee lad, and it's something that I'm doing, and I'm respecting that it makes her uncomfortable by keeping any firearms that I acquire out of her sight, and keeping it low key.
I've got friends who's partners have freaked out about it, but mine is one of the most reasonable people that I know, I'm a lucky man, and it's not a big hassle for me not to replace the guitars mounted on my office wall with an arsenal fit to stage a coup
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
You want to get started for under $1000, which is fine.
Just to keep your eyes open on this, how much do you expect to shoot, i.e. how much do you plan to spend on ammo? 250 rounds a year? 1000 rounds a year?
I'm not suggesting that you spend more money on your rifle, but you should be aware that ammo consumption tends to be more expensive than the cost of the rifle. Even if you handload, 1,000 rounds per year of .308 will cost about $600. A thousand rounds a year of factory match ammo would simply not be affordable - I'm likely out of date here, but it could be $2,000 to $2,500.
If it is at all possible to set aside your requirement to use the rifle for moose hunting (zero to three shots fired in a year), that would greatly improve your options for target shooting (hundreds of shots fired in a year). If possible, I would suggest you choose the best rifle for your target shooting requirements, and then either buy another rifle for moose hunting, or borrow one, etc.
I have shot a .308 target rifle for 16 years. It took me three years to (mostly) get over a flinch, I have struggled to keep it away since then, in fact I am still not over it and still have to constantly fight to keep it away. Last year I was fortunate enough to win the most prestigious match in Canadian fullbore iron sights target rifle shooting. And at 900m, on the third-last shot in that match, I flinched, and lost a point, and figured then and there that I had lost the match. So please believe me when I say that I wholeheartedly agree with Ian's advice that a .308's recoil slows down your progress as a shooter. If I were God and I were inventing the "TR" game from scratch today, I would likely choose 6BR as the cartridge to be used (due to military heritage, we use the military cartridges - .223 or .308).
Your best bet would be a .223 or a 6BR, with the 6BR probably being better and more versatile (especially if you want to go the barrel-swap route to get a moose-capable rifle). Both are somewhat cheaper to shoot than the .308 (the bras cost is similar, they burn 55-65% as much powder, their bullets weigh 50%-65% as much as the .308's and to a certain extent the bullet prices reflect some of this). More importantly, they both have meaningfully lower recoil than a .308, are pretty straightforward to load to deadly accuracy (as is the .308), and with the right choice of match bullets (80 and 90 grain bullets for .223, 105-ish grain bullets for the 6BR) are able to match or exceed the .308's wind drift characteristics (which is a principal factor in long range shooting performance).
I would suggest that you avoid a muzzle break. It is unnecessary expense, it is not allowed in some competitions (they are brutally loud), and especially with a .223 or 6BR it isn't necessary.
As others have mentioned, target grade iron sights are fearfully expensive (on the order of a decent scope). And hunting style iron sights are not really suited to being used at a variety of ranges where sight adjustments will be needed. I would suggest a "good cheap scope", such as are available. This will actually be a more difficult thing to get right and make the right budget compromises on, than the choice of rifle.
Nothing wrong with a detachable magazine, it's a nice convenient feature, but absolutely no need for it either. For a target rifle, single shot actions are preferred (they are simpler, and also stiffer because they don't have a hole cut in their bottom). Besides, once you learn how to shoot with a target rifle, really learn how to shoo, you won't suffer any crisis of confidence going hunting with a single shot rifle. You'll *know* and understand that the shooting part of the hunt is something that you've already mastered.
Just to keep your eyes open on this, how much do you expect to shoot, i.e. how much do you plan to spend on ammo? 250 rounds a year? 1000 rounds a year?
I'm not suggesting that you spend more money on your rifle, but you should be aware that ammo consumption tends to be more expensive than the cost of the rifle. Even if you handload, 1,000 rounds per year of .308 will cost about $600. A thousand rounds a year of factory match ammo would simply not be affordable - I'm likely out of date here, but it could be $2,000 to $2,500.
If it is at all possible to set aside your requirement to use the rifle for moose hunting (zero to three shots fired in a year), that would greatly improve your options for target shooting (hundreds of shots fired in a year). If possible, I would suggest you choose the best rifle for your target shooting requirements, and then either buy another rifle for moose hunting, or borrow one, etc.
I have shot a .308 target rifle for 16 years. It took me three years to (mostly) get over a flinch, I have struggled to keep it away since then, in fact I am still not over it and still have to constantly fight to keep it away. Last year I was fortunate enough to win the most prestigious match in Canadian fullbore iron sights target rifle shooting. And at 900m, on the third-last shot in that match, I flinched, and lost a point, and figured then and there that I had lost the match. So please believe me when I say that I wholeheartedly agree with Ian's advice that a .308's recoil slows down your progress as a shooter. If I were God and I were inventing the "TR" game from scratch today, I would likely choose 6BR as the cartridge to be used (due to military heritage, we use the military cartridges - .223 or .308).
Your best bet would be a .223 or a 6BR, with the 6BR probably being better and more versatile (especially if you want to go the barrel-swap route to get a moose-capable rifle). Both are somewhat cheaper to shoot than the .308 (the bras cost is similar, they burn 55-65% as much powder, their bullets weigh 50%-65% as much as the .308's and to a certain extent the bullet prices reflect some of this). More importantly, they both have meaningfully lower recoil than a .308, are pretty straightforward to load to deadly accuracy (as is the .308), and with the right choice of match bullets (80 and 90 grain bullets for .223, 105-ish grain bullets for the 6BR) are able to match or exceed the .308's wind drift characteristics (which is a principal factor in long range shooting performance).
I would suggest that you avoid a muzzle break. It is unnecessary expense, it is not allowed in some competitions (they are brutally loud), and especially with a .223 or 6BR it isn't necessary.
As others have mentioned, target grade iron sights are fearfully expensive (on the order of a decent scope). And hunting style iron sights are not really suited to being used at a variety of ranges where sight adjustments will be needed. I would suggest a "good cheap scope", such as are available. This will actually be a more difficult thing to get right and make the right budget compromises on, than the choice of rifle.
Nothing wrong with a detachable magazine, it's a nice convenient feature, but absolutely no need for it either. For a target rifle, single shot actions are preferred (they are simpler, and also stiffer because they don't have a hole cut in their bottom). Besides, once you learn how to shoot with a target rifle, really learn how to shoo, you won't suffer any crisis of confidence going hunting with a single shot rifle. You'll *know* and understand that the shooting part of the hunt is something that you've already mastered.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
The same Savage SA is used from the 223 to the WSM. The only differences are the bolt head, mag and barrel.
If you can find parts, you will have the same flexibility to mix and match parts as are offered by Savage (and then all the wildcats and chamberings that aren't).
Do take the advice from these very experienced competition shooters - if your goal is to get into competition/match shooting, the rifle has to focus on those needs. Hunting definitely takes a back seat.
I shoot F Open with my Savage or Stevens action and can swap back to make a hunting rig if needed. However, for what the factory rifles costs, I have simply bought another to suit.
Then that becomes a donor for another project rifle which leads to another factory rifle and so on and so on...
Jerry
Well....I went way over budget.
Got a .308 Tikka T3 Varmint, Harris Bipod, and a Bushnell Elite 6500 scope.
Took it to the range for the first time today (first time shooting in nearly 20 years), and put 50 rounds of reloads through it (Lapua match 168gr).
Very happy with the results....may post pictures later for anyone who cares.
Got a .308 Tikka T3 Varmint, Harris Bipod, and a Bushnell Elite 6500 scope.
Took it to the range for the first time today (first time shooting in nearly 20 years), and put 50 rounds of reloads through it (Lapua match 168gr).
Very happy with the results....may post pictures later for anyone who cares.
Here's a question. I see a lot of guns on the EE (this one included) that have had 20 rounds or less put through them.
I put 50 through this one today, and if I hadn't promised my girl that I'd be home by 6, and my hands weren't numb from the cold, I'd have very easily put another 50 through it.
So, I guess the question is, what's up with that, or something?
I put 50 through this one today, and if I hadn't promised my girl that I'd be home by 6, and my hands weren't numb from the cold, I'd have very easily put another 50 through it.
So, I guess the question is, what's up with that, or something?
Its quite believable, especially if they are hunters only and don't target shoot. And thats likely the majority of rifle owners in Canada from my experience. Many might only shoot 1 shot from year to year and clean every 4th year
. I know almost exclusively guys like that . I had one in the safe that in the last year has had almost 450 down the pipe, the 4 or 5 years previous only 12. I think with the rig you bought your gonna get addicted to paper punching though.
EDIT: A few years ago I bought a little rem 22, buckskin pump, from a guy out west. I was never told how many rounds had been through it. Anyways its 1950's. I doubt it had had 200 rounds or even close to it. My little lad is learning to shoot it now.
Your asking why a gun would be sold with only 25 ish rds. down it...... well, let me explain.......
You come home from the store after stopping at the range to try your new beauty but it was getting dark because you picked it up from the store after work.
You go in the house and the next conversation with the wife starts with .... YOU BOUGHT WHAT ???!!!.... then a few days later there is a posting on the gunnutz EE lists.
Rofl
Mike
You come home from the store after stopping at the range to try your new beauty but it was getting dark because you picked it up from the store after work.
You go in the house and the next conversation with the wife starts with .... YOU BOUGHT WHAT ???!!!.... then a few days later there is a posting on the gunnutz EE lists.
Rofl
Mike
Ah ha, perfect sense.
Its quite believable, especially if they are hunters only and don't target shoot. And thats likely the majority of rifle owners in Canada from my experience. Many might only shoot 1 shot from year to year and clean every 4th year
I think with the rig you bought your gonna get addicted to paper punching though.
Also perfect sense.
Yeah, I bought this thing for paper hunting, I got addicted in the early 90s, right before it got outlawed in my homeland. Been meaning to get back into it for a long time though.
I might go hunting at some point, but the thought of being ankle deep in an animal hauling out guts, then having to drag the carcass miles through the woods doesn't appeal to me all that much. Duck hunting is probably more my speed.
