springfield 1903
- Thread starter mini14guy
- Start date
30-03
The original cartridge for the Model 1903 Springfield rifle was the Cartridge, Small Arms, calibre .30", Model of 1903. It used what we now would call a .270W casing (the .270 is a necked-down .30-'03) with the old 220-grain RNFB bullet which the Krag used.
It was based on a yet earlier cartridge which came out in 1901, also suited to a Mauser-type action.
The 220-grain RNFB bullet was dropped in 1906 and the FBFMJ pointed bullet weighing 150 grains and having a cupronickel jacket, substituted. This is the correct .30 calibre cartridge, Model of 1906. It pushed the bullet at 2700 ft/sec and used a charge of Pyro D powder (very fast and nasty: pressure was over 50,000 PSI).
Following World War One, the US adopted the Ball Cartridge caliber .30" M1, this using a 173-grain BT spitzer bullet at about 2500 ft/sec. This bullet was gilding-metal jacketed and was a copy of the Swiss bullet, with which the Americans experimented (in combat) during the Great War. This was to have supplanted entirely the original Model 1906 cartridge, but it turned out later to have too much range for many restricted rifle ranges..... so along came the .30" Ball Cartridge M2, using a pointed flkatbase bullet at 152 grains, salvaged lead-antimony core and with the velocity boosted to a little ob=ver 2800 ft/sec because of better powder technology. THIS was to be the standard American cartridge until the end of the .30-'06 era.
Funny thing, but the Garand rifle was developed entirely with the Ball M1 catrtridge, but was USED almost entirely with the Ball M2. John Garand was worried that the Ball M2 might not develop sufficient gas pressure at the muzzle takeoff to power the M1 rifle! And today..... all the warnings against heavy bullets in your Garand..... which was DEVELOPED FOR the heavy bulet!
Get a copy of HATCHER'S NOTEBOOK by Maj.-Gen. Julian S. Hatcher (Stackpole, Harrisburg, PA), which now is back in print. It's all in there and the tale is completely authoritative: Hatcher himself was one of the men involved with the entire program.
Hope this helps.
It was based on a yet earlier cartridge which came out in 1901, also suited to a Mauser-type action.
The 220-grain RNFB bullet was dropped in 1906 and the FBFMJ pointed bullet weighing 150 grains and having a cupronickel jacket, substituted. This is the correct .30 calibre cartridge, Model of 1906. It pushed the bullet at 2700 ft/sec and used a charge of Pyro D powder (very fast and nasty: pressure was over 50,000 PSI).
Following World War One, the US adopted the Ball Cartridge caliber .30" M1, this using a 173-grain BT spitzer bullet at about 2500 ft/sec. This bullet was gilding-metal jacketed and was a copy of the Swiss bullet, with which the Americans experimented (in combat) during the Great War. This was to have supplanted entirely the original Model 1906 cartridge, but it turned out later to have too much range for many restricted rifle ranges..... so along came the .30" Ball Cartridge M2, using a pointed flkatbase bullet at 152 grains, salvaged lead-antimony core and with the velocity boosted to a little ob=ver 2800 ft/sec because of better powder technology. THIS was to be the standard American cartridge until the end of the .30-'06 era.
Funny thing, but the Garand rifle was developed entirely with the Ball M1 catrtridge, but was USED almost entirely with the Ball M2. John Garand was worried that the Ball M2 might not develop sufficient gas pressure at the muzzle takeoff to power the M1 rifle! And today..... all the warnings against heavy bullets in your Garand..... which was DEVELOPED FOR the heavy bulet!
Get a copy of HATCHER'S NOTEBOOK by Maj.-Gen. Julian S. Hatcher (Stackpole, Harrisburg, PA), which now is back in print. It's all in there and the tale is completely authoritative: Hatcher himself was one of the men involved with the entire program.
Hope this helps.
When the US services resumed match shooting shortly after WW2 they used the 168gr armour piercing bullet(black tip) because of it's superior ballistic performance. This was the genesis of the 168gr Sierra match bullet which remains the benchmark for .30-06 and .308 accuracy ammo to the present. I remember buying a pee-pot pull of surplus 168gr AP ammo put up in Garand clips from the old Super S Drug Store in Calgary back in 1972.
The US Army then developed a .30-06 match load for use in the Garand in the 1950s which was produced until 1968. This bullet had a nominal weight of 173gr-similar to the original M1 ammo for the .30-06. I am still using a bunch of LC 67 and 68 match brass which does not have a crimped in primer. I also got hold of 1000 pulldown 173gr match bullets. They are an accurate bullet, altho less accurate than the 168 or 175gr Sierra match. I found enough deviation in their weight to sort them into 3 batches by varying weight.
As a footnote, I knew an old rifle team shooter who had shot against a US team using No 4 LEs and 174gr service ammo, while the US team had shot with Garands and 150-152gr M2 ball. Things were pretty even at 300yds, but at the longer distances the better ballistic properties of the heavier .303 bullets made all the difference. Quel suprise!
The US Army then developed a .30-06 match load for use in the Garand in the 1950s which was produced until 1968. This bullet had a nominal weight of 173gr-similar to the original M1 ammo for the .30-06. I am still using a bunch of LC 67 and 68 match brass which does not have a crimped in primer. I also got hold of 1000 pulldown 173gr match bullets. They are an accurate bullet, altho less accurate than the 168 or 175gr Sierra match. I found enough deviation in their weight to sort them into 3 batches by varying weight.
As a footnote, I knew an old rifle team shooter who had shot against a US team using No 4 LEs and 174gr service ammo, while the US team had shot with Garands and 150-152gr M2 ball. Things were pretty even at 300yds, but at the longer distances the better ballistic properties of the heavier .303 bullets made all the difference. Quel suprise!
First you'd have to find one for sale.
If you take a close look you will see that "The Pacific" is using M1903A3 Spflds with the aperture rear sight. These were not being produced or issued until after the fighting was over on Guadalcanal(Jan 1943). It's Hollywood after all so we need to expect that;something like the "whatsit" scope that the bell tower sniper used on his M1903A4 in SPR.
I have some of them. They are early ones with the questionable actions. I have read that the early ones with a serial number below 48 000 or something weren't heat treated properly and you shouldn't use them for custom builds. Mine are still original.
Numbers of receivers with the old-style heat treatment on Springfields..... the changeover to the new doudle heat-treatment (which was really good) was shortly before 800,000. Rock Island Arsenal had changed over (they think, mostly) at about 285,000.
This is a million rifles with the old-style heat-treatment. Fortunately, the REALLY bad ones were only made after the US got involved in the Great War, but none of the early ones were regarded as very safe. They were ordered cannibalised for parts whenever one came into a depot for repair.
Note carefully that nobody ever ordered a million Lee-Enfields or P-'14s or M-1917s to be cannibalised for parts and the receivers destroyed.
Serials on the 1903A3 started somewhere after 3,000,000. There is a gap in the serials between the end of 1903 production and the beginning of Remington production (at 3 million) for War Two.
BTW, point-blank range on the 1903 battlesight was said to be 547 yards with 1906 ammo; after that, you started to raise your sight. A trifle excessive, one would think, being that most enemies tended to be a bit closer.
Still, the National Match Springfield was a wonderful rifle. I just can't afford one. Make do with a Ross, I guess.....
This is a million rifles with the old-style heat-treatment. Fortunately, the REALLY bad ones were only made after the US got involved in the Great War, but none of the early ones were regarded as very safe. They were ordered cannibalised for parts whenever one came into a depot for repair.
Note carefully that nobody ever ordered a million Lee-Enfields or P-'14s or M-1917s to be cannibalised for parts and the receivers destroyed.
Serials on the 1903A3 started somewhere after 3,000,000. There is a gap in the serials between the end of 1903 production and the beginning of Remington production (at 3 million) for War Two.
BTW, point-blank range on the 1903 battlesight was said to be 547 yards with 1906 ammo; after that, you started to raise your sight. A trifle excessive, one would think, being that most enemies tended to be a bit closer.
Still, the National Match Springfield was a wonderful rifle. I just can't afford one. Make do with a Ross, I guess.....
Some of us could look it up in our "Hatcher's Notebook," and get the exact dates and s/ns.
I can remember from reading it years ago, the heat treating problem arrose because the temperature was gauged by the color of the metal. The room had much of the lighting coming in from windows. On a bright day the temperatures would tend to be hotter, before the proper color showed. This made the actions brittle.
Yeah, the experts knew more than the new-fangled optical pyrometers did, so they did it 'their way'. Sort of like the guy I saw rebuilding a 6-banger Chevy engine; he tightened down the crankshaft bearings until the shaft wouldn't move, then put a shim in so it would. Real scientific.
Hatcher MUST be the Oracle as far as this is concerned; he was the guy who traced the problem in the first place. His book is absolutely 'MUST' reading for anyone concerned with military rifles. That's where I got the figures, BTW.
You can tell when a rifle was built in a couple of seconds, just as long as the original tube is on it. Barrels were dated on their tops, just behind the front sight. "10-17" indicates October, 1917.
Hope this helps.
Hatcher MUST be the Oracle as far as this is concerned; he was the guy who traced the problem in the first place. His book is absolutely 'MUST' reading for anyone concerned with military rifles. That's where I got the figures, BTW.
You can tell when a rifle was built in a couple of seconds, just as long as the original tube is on it. Barrels were dated on their tops, just behind the front sight. "10-17" indicates October, 1917.
Hope this helps.
The safety of the low number single heat treated Springfields is an old issue. Some folks shoot them,while most don't. The general consensus is not to do it. They are getting to be 100 yrs old now. I've had a couple low numbers and did'nt shoot them. Funnily enough, the only one I've actually seen with a cracked receiver was a late Remington '03.
Hey my friend,
There's always a way to get nice ones.
Ask for and pay for
BB
You mean like this one
Not that accurate but a real nice piece!
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Kinda Like this one?
Thats a fantastic 03/a3...is the stock a new one, from Boyds..??
You mean like this one
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I must say: VERY NICE! Is it yours?
