Curiosity - polarized opinions on Glocks?

TIM_COX said:
SERIOUSLY, you know nothing about glocks.... how many rounds have you put thru a glock ?? I shoot 5000-10,000 rounds thru a glock a year with no problem.... I just finished a 2 day fighting pistol course shooting 800 rounds of ammo and where 16 of the 21 shooters where shooting GLOCKS (the other guns where 2x S&W 5946/1x Taurus 1911/1x HK USP/1 CZ p-01) so during those 2 days that I was there at least 12,800 rounds where fired from glocks pistols without a hiccup..... then most of the guys stayed for the "advanced" course and the shotgun course which entailed another 1200 rounds each... and from what I hear all glocks made it thru without a hiccup.

I have been shooting glocks since 1995..... all shapes and sizes... 100's of thousands of rounds thru various models..... my current G17 has 25,000 rounds thru it and still looks new except for the holster wear on the nose... the only part I have changed is the recoil spring and the trigger spring every 10k
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And shooting the 5946 in a course is no indication that you think it's the best choice...in fact it was almost certainly someone else's choice that you're shooting a 5946!

Glocks are good pistols and they have been so thoroughly proven that it is a little silly to even have this discussion now. Twenty years ago this discussion was being had all over the place, but the answers are known pretty well by anyone who's been paying even the slightest attention.

The questions these days are really just, "are the non-9mm Glocks up to the standard of the 9mm Glocks?" and "what can be done to make a better service pistol than a 9mm Glock?"

I understand people not having a love affair with Glocks...I emotionally prefer the 1911. But Glocks are very functional and I cannot think of even ONE serious source of information on "tactical" pistol use that says otherwise, particularly in regards to the G17 and G19. They are as proven as it gets and anybody who says otherwise is pretty well kidding themselves.
 
Glocks

I have been through a bunch of training courses now with lots or mainly Glocks being shot with round counts in the thousands such as 30-50k over the course of about a week. I have never ever heard or seen such issues as Boomer has with a Glock. That being said, all man made items can and do have manufacturing defects or man-fucteringup defects.

Greg
 
albertacoyotecaller said:
I have been through a bunch of training courses now with lots or mainly Glocks being shot with round counts in the thousands such as 30-50k over the course of about a week. I have never ever heard or seen such issues as Boomer has with a Glock. That being said, all man made items can and do have manufacturing defects or man-fucteringup defects.

Greg
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I confess that, subjectively, a speedrock feels less natural with a Glock than with other triggers. That might be some of what Boomer is talking about.

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http://chucktayloramericansmallarmsacademy.com/close_quarters.html
 
TIM_COX said:
so explain how a gun explodes and it is not the ammo's fault... a glock is physically incapable of firing out of battery UNLESS the striker channel has been oiled, which may create a hydralic pressure and allow the firing pin to protrude.... otherwise there is a safety that does not allow the striker to protrude from the breach face unless the trigger is pulled, as the trigger is pulled it moves the striker plunger up which allows the striker to travel the full distance needed to hit the primer.

frankly I suspect since this happened in a 9mm pistol (not the .40) that your buddy got a double charged round or he was using ammo that the bullet got set back on which would raise the chamber pressure, either improper crimp or multi rechamberings of the same cartridge. either way, factory ammo is not infallible.
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First off, I never said he was my Buddy (The only friend of mine who had a Glock, sold it ;) ).

Second, I merely stated for the interest of the OP, that in my limited 20 years of shooting everything from .22s to 84mm anti-tank weapons, a Glock 17 is the only firearm I have ever personally witnessed go KB, which is one of the reasons I don't like them... Mostly I don't like 'em because they feel funny in my hand - Again, I say: YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.

Have super day - and keep shooting whatever you shoot!
 
TIM_COX said:
SERIOUSLY, you know nothing about glocks.... how many rounds have you put thru a glock ?? I shoot 5000-10,000 rounds thru a glock a year with no problem.... I just finished a 2 day fighting pistol course shooting 800 rounds of ammo and where 16 of the 21 shooters where shooting GLOCKS (the other guns where 2x S&W 5946/1x Taurus 1911/1x HK USP/1 CZ p-01) so during those 2 days that I was there at least 12,800 rounds where fired from glocks pistols without a hiccup..... then most of the guys stayed for the "advanced" course and the shotgun course which entailed another 1200 rounds each... and from what I hear all glocks made it thru without a hiccup.

I have been shooting glocks since 1995..... all shapes and sizes... 100's of thousands of rounds thru various models..... my current G17 has 25,000 rounds thru it and still looks new except for the holster wear on the nose... the only part I have changed is the recoil spring and the trigger spring every 10k
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In other words, you are so in tune with the Glock operating system that you cannot fathom that an individual with less experience would have the slightest issue with one, even though his actions/reactions must be less intuitive than your own. The pistol you choose to shoot is totally irrelevant because that level of exposure to shooting should result in a very high degree of performance with anything. The fact that you've stuck with it for this long suggests you have achieved that very high level of performance, other wise you might have found a more fulfilling way to spend your time and money. Clearly, the Glock is the best pistol for you.

The vast majority of those who choose a pistol for self defense are probably not enthusiasts, competitors, or even LEOs. They won't fire a fraction of that ammo you do, even though they are basically familiar with their pistols and should be able to qualify on a LEO equivalent course of fire. It would be fair to say that they would be more likely be confounded by smaller problems than you are. They might do well to consider a pistol that operates more like their other firearms, that is with a safety and a more typical trigger system, regardless of the praise the enthusiasts heap on Glock.

The proper analogy might be the long haul trucker and the daily commuter. The commuter is concerned with getting from A to B along a single route in order to live his life, whereas road travel to the long haul trucker is his life. The commuter begins to feel anxious when exposed to traffic for more than 40 minutes, or when he must detour to an unfamiliar route. On the other hand the trucker begins to feel anxious after a few hours away from the cab of his rig.

Many people believe that shooting skills can be maintained by shooting 50 rounds or so per week, and that is probably correct if the individual's initial training has been adequate. After all, one does not need to drive 12,000 miles a month in order to pass a road test or operate a vehicle safely. While I have no idea of how many rounds I've fired from pistols and rifles since the mid 60's, I imagine if all of my brass could be put into a single pile it would cause a scrap dealer to salivate.
 
wicked_police said:
This thread is awesome, thanks to the continuing efforts of one mis-informed person.
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yeah but under the stress of combat he prefers a gun which he has to flick the safety off of before he can pull the trigger.... what experience does he have again that qualifies as the "stress of combat" ??

I guess this guy has never heard the beep when the ipsc/idpa buzzer goes off... man I get so stressed out I plumb forget to pull the trigger, or I forget where I even stowed my pistola.....
 
TIM_COX said:
yeah but under the stress of combat he prefers a gun which he has to flick the safety off of before he can pull the trigger.... what experience does he have again that qualifies as the "stress of combat" ??

I guess this guy has never heard the beep when the ipsc/idpa buzzer goes off... man I get so stressed out I plumb forget to pull the trigger, or I forget where I even stowed my pistola.....
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BEEP:runaway:
 
I've only shot a 1911 once and didn't care for it. I also shot a G17C and didn't care for that either. I just put some rounds through a G34 and it's now on the top of my "To buy" list.
 
DRD said:
I've only shot a 1911 once and didn't care for it. I also shot a G17C and didn't care for that either. I just put some rounds through a G34 and it's now on the top of my "To buy" list.
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never tried a 17C, but agreed that the 34 is quite different from the 17 in terms of feel and would be a GREAT gun to own.

i'm gonna try to get some trigger time with a G21 this weekend and see if the mix of Glock-n-.45ACP is worth considering. shot it once, but didn't know enough back then to say whether it was good, bad, or average.
 
I have a 34, a 17 RTF2, and a Gen4 17. The 34 is very nice(I use it for IDPA), but I like the feel of the RTF2 as well.

I haven't shot the Gen4 enough yet, but in the couple hundred rounds I put through it, it feels pretty good(with no backstrap).
Once I can do a more comprehensive comparison, I'll find out how the new recoil guide rod spring changes the feel.
 
Another thought came to my head, judging by the number of SSP shooters in IDPA out West (who also run Glock), I'd say go with the Glock (for a couple of reasons).

More people shooting them mean more people to gain information from.
More people shooting them means higher demand for parts and accessories, means easier lifelong maintenance.
More people shooting them means higher confidence the gun works and works well.

Next biggest division is CDP, so if you have a first and second, go Glock then 1911.
 
misanthropist said:
The questions these days are really just, "are the non-9mm Glocks up to the standard of the 9mm Glocks?" and "what can be done to make a better service pistol than a 9mm Glock?"
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If they are as perfect as you seem to think then why do most guys immediately change out the cheap plastic sights, install a NY Trigger and wish the mags were made of something other than polymer, and at the end of the day still have a pistol with a lighter, but mushy trigger?

Glocks main attraction to the LEO crowd is they are light and their departments can buy them for next to nothing and they are functional.

Glock still runs an Armourers course so I assume, Glocks like any mechanical device do break down. The SIG 226 seems to have a following with the Special Forces of a number of countries, including the US Navy Seals and our own Naval Boarding parties are carrying SIGS as well. Rumour has it the RCMP ERT teams may get the 226. It would seem that when cost is not the primary attraction military units seem to have followed a different path. Are they wrong to do so?

There is no question Glocks are very good at what they are designed for but the design is dated and they certainly aren't for everybody. I see they are on their fourth attempt at getting it right and for some folks, a Gen 5 maybe forthcoming before they pull out their cheque books.

Buying a CZ Shadow because Adam Tyc wins IPSC Production with one makes as much sense as buying a Glock because your local police department carries them or someone saying they are the pistol all 9MM guns are judged against.

Take Care

Bob
 
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