In praise of AR15 or Swiss Arms CQB?

Crossbones

Crossbones

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I've tried searching the forum for some details on the Swiss Arms CQB and only three threads popped up. So here goes my question, on another thread I asked about a shorty AR-15 and came to the conclusion that ATR had what I was looking for but I sat and thought about it and wondered if I should save a few more of my pennies (alright about $800 more) and go for the CQB?
I've never used the CQB so I was wondering if parts were easy to come by in the Great White North? I'm also curious with its range since its barrel is 9.5" long, does it also sport the same limitations of a shorty AR? Thanks in advance for any assist :)
 
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CQB - it's in a different league than a shorty AR.

Loved mine - handled nice and cycled smooth! Spare parts would be easy to come by, as many people stock these rifles. TSE has a lot of parts, as well as a Swiss gunsmith! :)

There were some issues with the full auto ones if I recall, but i've never heard of anyone breaking or having issues with the semi ones we get up here.

I'd go Swiss.
 
I have a Swiss CQB and I have not needed parts yet! With around 4000 +rds through it. But the Shooting edge & Wolverine should be able to get what you would need for fixes.
I have a Aimpoint Comp 4 on mine and it shoots to 100m very well. I love mine, Although it is a bit heavier than an AR, I have the M1913 rail front handguards that add a bit extra to it.
I have had my fingers & thumb smacked by the reciprocating charging handle a few times while holding the Mag & shooting from the left shoulder, But I'm a slow learner!:D
This is a awesome little rife (MP5 on steroids!) I have had zero mag problems. when its seated ....its seated!
I have had 2 maybe3 failer to fires, I racked the bolt and back in business! O ya and its LOUD:D
The CQB & the 14" rifle Dent the case hull & pull the rim out a bit, and throws them about 4 ft out and 8-12ft over,if your into reloading its a bit of a pain! The 20" rife does not dent the hulls but still throws the brass the same!
I do prefer the Swiss CQB over the shorty AR, But that's my opinion ( so far):D
 
I liked my SAN CQB but it depends on what your priorities are.

The little SAN is heavy relative to an AR with the same barrel length, only you know if that matters to you.

ARs are more modular (sights etc.) but the SAN is well setup to begin with.

The AR feels more "pointable" but the CQB is built like a tank.

Magazine price used to be an issue but isn't now due to aftermarket CanAm mags.

Accessories for the SAN line are expensive (overpriced, really) but you don't really need much aside from a top rail.

The SAN is a loud little f@#$'er compared to an AR where you could select a muzzle device to mitigate this.

Not sure what parts you're talking about, but you're not gonna' need 'em for the SAN ;). They are available though without much trouble.

ATR-made AR is buying Canadian, maybe that is important to you (suit yourself).

For reloading, SAN beats the sh!t out of brass, if you could find it.

Others will cite "ergonomics" but I find each to be easy to handle and operate.

I swapped-out my SAN CQB for a 14.3" Carbine and find it superior, ultimately depends on how short you need to go (and YMMV).

I also have a 14" M4 so am still on the fence I guess. I say ask yourself which one you'll get first! :p

Cheers
 
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A $1500 Stag will run with pretty much any rifle on the market (IMO). Keep in mind that $2000 savings would buy you a good optic, a training course and thousands of rounds of ammo.
 
Thanks for all the info! As for the weight, how much is the difference? Like 2 pounds? I thought parts would be in short supply or service would be like that offered by HK. And I don't mind the loudness since I'm not a ninja :D
Buying Canadian is important, that's why I was seriously considering Dlask's Mini Moose (with the Noveske-style hider, Magpul CTR and wider trigger guard) or ATR's Special Shorty. The ATR is about $300 more than the Mini Moose, but if I get the ATR I could save a bit more and go for the CQB. That's why I'm in such a quandary, all around, these rifles are of excellent quality.
Hmmm... Get the Mini Moose and load out with good optics and ammo... Get the ATR and ammo... Or the CQB and wait for more money to get optics and ammo... *sigh*
 
I gotta say I would love to have a SAN CQB but I would never trade it for my AR. Its a cool little piece but I really think that an AR is your most practical buy. IMHO its a pointless exercise to have a really cool individual gun and no ammo or optics so you cant really practise anyway.

Plus.. when you have YOUR OWN AR in your hand... you will be just as happy :)
 
I own, and have owned, many of each.


On the SAN:
I love the SAN guns. Almost to a fault. I have to admit in all fairness that some of that at least some of that admiration derives from admiration from Swiss culture; a culture that has engendered/fostered a strong appreciation for civilian marksmanship.

This cultural appreciation is not separate from, but rather in addition to (over and above) my appreciation for its excellent design, fit and finish.

It is a really fancy tool, and it is nice to celebrate open access to these firearms for sporting purposes here in Canada.


On the AR:
That said, the AR really is the Swiss Army knife of firearms. Hell. It can be anything from a set of craftsman wrenches to a cabinet full of snap-on tools.

It has been adapted for everything from the door kicking goon squad and CP duty to regular army use to long range application. Parts are easy to find, from MANY vendors, in a price configuration that can suit virtually any budget. Some may raise the argument that certain groups are seeking to close the door to plentiful parts out of the US.

But the fact that at least two Canadian manufacturers (Dlask and ATR) now produce ARs here in Canada goes a long way to off-setting the real possibility of pervasive US export difficulties. Were no such shops in business here in Canada, I would have re-thought my position on the notion of 'easily-available'. I strongly believe that for that reason alone they deserve a close look.


On Style:
If you studied Bushido, wouldn't you buy a Samurai sword? Or if you studied Fencing, a rapier?

Much of the western world's shooting skills courses are built around a body of knowledge grown out of nearly 40 years of continuous use of the AR platform. A whole body of terms that didn't even exist in common use 20 years ago (manual of arms / kinesthetics / muscle memory) have become commonly understood basic concepts.

Moreover, the recent gulf war has infused a significant 'feeder' element for future training cadres with a body of knowledge regarding combative use of firearms arguably not experienced since WWII. Probably because they are in actual combat.

As such, if you are going to learn handling, fighting or marksmanship skills from Western trainers, the AR platform is a bit of a no-brainer. With a few courses under your belt you can make an educated decision about whether the AR is the lifetime platform for you, or if you desire a switch. Either way, you will have a much stronger appreciation for the big question: WHY?


Just my opinion. YMMV.
 
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Crossbones said:
Thanks for all the info! As for the weight, how much is the difference? Like 2 pounds? I thought parts would be in short supply or service would be like that offered by HK. And I don't mind the loudness since I'm not a ninja :D
Buying Canadian is important, that's why I was seriously considering Dlask's Mini Moose (with the Noveske-style hider, Magpul CTR and wider trigger guard) or ATR's Special Shorty. The ATR is about $300 more than the Mini Moose, but if I get the ATR I could save a bit more and go for the CQB. That's why I'm in such a quandary, all around, these rifles are of excellent quality.
Hmmm... Get the Mini Moose and load out with good optics and ammo... Get the ATR and ammo... Or the CQB and wait for more money to get optics and ammo... *sigh*
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Sounds like you have some thinkins' to do :D. I'd consider some of the posts above carefully, there is great info there. Then just man-up and pick one... :p

Regarding the weight, yeah you're looking at a couple of lbs. difference in factory config. Keep in mind most people strap so many "accessories" on their AR that it usually balances out.

Now I understand that you're not a ninja ;) hence sound isn't a concern... but I gotta' tell you - the SAN CQB is frickin' loud. Like uncomfortable, borderline obnoxious loud. Is it still worth it? Yes... but the shooters beside you will be less impressed than you with your new gun. :p

Regarding SAN parts, again, it's not gonna' be a problem but they are available.

You can't lose whichever you choose so I wouldn't worry too much, you're gonna' end up happy! :D
 
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I own multiple Swiss Arms and ARs. Probably my never sell rifle is the CQB. Love that gun! Can't help but smile when shooting it, just wish we didn't have to limit ourselves to neutered 5 round mags.

ARs are far more modular and you can mix and match to your hearts content, and at a much cheaper price point than the SAN. That said, I haven't had to actually buy replacement parts to fix any of my Swiss guns yet, 'cause they simply haven't broken as yet.

If it were me, I'd buy the CQB now and save up for an AR after.
 
Buy what you enjoy shooting more, the rest is purely semantics. I prefer the CQB, the increased weight helps keep followup shots on target and muzzle flip to a minimum.
 
Thanks for all the additional info :D I can't believe there's such a dedicated following to the CQB. I'm surprised no law enforcement agency has picked it up for use, other than the obvious price tag being the obstacle.
 
unibomber said:
The CQB & the 14" rifle Dent the case hull & pull the rim out a bit, and throws them about 4 ft out and 8-12ft over,if your into reloading its a bit of a pain! The 20" rife does not dent the hulls but still throws the brass the same!
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I have the 20 and it still dents the brass. 8( But a little less over time.
One consideration about the Ar is that you can get legal 10 round mags for it in Canada.
 
Pickup the CQB deal in the EE! ;) Gets you shooting sooner.

Then you can wait and save for the perfect AR build.
 
Crossbones said:
Thanks for all the additional info :D I can't believe there's such a dedicated following to the CQB. I'm surprised no law enforcement agency has picked it up for use, other than the obvious price tag being the obstacle.
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I think if you check around you might be surprised. They are used by quite a few high end units.
 
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