Primers Ejecting?

dfritter1

dfritter1

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I took my new (to me) Savage 111 out to shoot today and was surprised when the bolt didn't close on the fourth round. As it turns out, the primer from the third round was still bouncing around in the breech, preventing the next round from chambering.

It happened four times over 18 rounds of factory Winchester Super X (150 grain), and I was just wondering why.

Can anyone help?
 
:eek:
They fell right out?!?!? Loosened primer pockets are a sign of too high pressure, but these ones physically removed themselves from the cases? Did they come out upon firing, opening the action or the round ejecting?
 
I would talk to Winchester about that, as they were factory loaded. Anything else going on such as a sticky bolt, and how did the other fired cartridges look? Pics?
 
What do the fired cases look like? is the gun chambered for the rounds you're fireing? If so don't shoot any more. Take it to a gunsmith or if it's new take it back.
 
PileBuck said:
I would talk to Winchester about that, as they were factory loaded. Anything else going on such as a sticky bolt, and how did the other fired cartridges look? Pics?
Click to expand...

x2, they'll probably send you a coupon for a free box of ammo or something. I use 180 gr Winchester Super X in my 300 win mag and I've had no problems out of 80 rounds so far.
 
I only once lost a primer from a cartridge, a double charge of SR-4759 was the culprit in a .30/06 loaded with 210 gr cast bullets. The primer pocket opened up to the edge of the lettering on the case head and the action had to be pounded open with a piece of 2X4. It was one of those experiences your really learn from. Loosing primers from Factory Winchester rifle ammo? Not likely.
 
There's no way in hell that was factory ammo.

Sounds like you got a box of shot-out or overloaded handloads.

Pics or it didn't happen, frankly.

-M
 
For your viewing pleasure, and to verify that I am not bs'ing anyone (what incentive I would have for that is unbeknown to me)...

It's definitely a .300 Win Mag...

4667192931_03dc6d2331_b.jpg


And the bolt doesn't feel like it's sticking (the first thing I did when I got the rifle was completely disassemble/clean/polish the bolt).

4667815974_a3a0bc6ed1_b.jpg


Carbon ring on bolt face...

4667816020_047a95f068_b.jpg


Tray o' fired cases, four cases missing primers standing front and center...

4667193127_2808894590_b.jpg


The business end, as it came out of the rifle...

4667816162_bd018da7e1_b.jpg


A case that managed to hold onto it's primer...

4667193209_a0653d18b5_b.jpg


All four deviants (now five!)...

4667193329_84c5739db1_b.jpg


No noticeable sizing issue between ejected-primer case on left and retained primer on right...

4667816496_3d27dde855_b.jpg


But, differing shoulder profiles...

4667193535_49639bf8d8_b.jpg


Of note, the variation in shoulder profiles was not tied to cases that had ejected their primers; both cases that had ejected and those that had retained their primers bore varying shoulder profiles.

The ejector imprints on the case heads seem to indicate high pressures in the chamber, and when I just went out to check how many cases had ejector imprints (all but one), I had yet another primer fall out on me. Literally, fall out. I lifted the case out of the tray, noticed a missing primer, looked into the tray, and there it was. So now I have five cases with primers that have fallen out.

It was raining when I shot them, and I've heard some reports of this causing flattened primers and higher pressures. I never experienced any of those symptoms when I last fired a rifle in the rain, but that was a C7, so maybe it's a bit different with a bolt-action rifle in a bigger calibre. With the shoulder profile variation, I wonder if this is the result of water on the case turning to steam upon firing and causing increased chamber pressures, preventing the case from properly fire-forming?

Thoughts?

EDIT: I bought the ammo from Wholesale Sports literally 3 hours prior to shooting it. Why the hell would I lie about this?
 
The 4 fired cases show pressure signs- note the brass flow back into the ejector pin hole. Have it looked at you are playing with fire there!!.
 
Alright! Pics so it DID happen! :D

This is what we needed.

Is this your rifle, new in box? Or was it well-worn when you got it? The finish looks to be anything but new, IMO.

My concern about that 'ring' around the firing pin hole is that it's actually a gas erosion ring - is it raised, or a crater? If it's cratered, the primers could back out for sure. The inconsistent shoulder profile could be a result of variable headspacing - even though these cases are supposed to headspace on the belt, they need to be held there by the bolt...

There is HUGE ejector flow on those cases - definite overpressure, from some source.

Seems like you have a sticky situation here - are you DEAD SURE these were factory loads? As in you purchased them from the shop yourself, and weren't given them?

Quite a quandary here.

-M
 
It's not a new rifle by any stretch. I bought it off the EE a couple weeks back, and although I don't know it's exact age, I know its newer than 2002 since its an Accutrigger-equipped rifle.

Definitely dead sure they're the factory loads; bought them myself at Wholesale, threw them in my bag, and put them in the rifle.

As for the bolt face, I scratched the ring with my fingernail and felt no variance in the surface. Looking at it closely under a light, there is no raised or cratered surface; it's dead flat, or so near to dead flat so as to make no difference. Taking a little cleaner to it, it came away like carbon. I didn't clean the rifle when I got it home, just dried it out, and I think that ring is the result of pressure/gases leaking out around the primer seal during firing.

Thus far, I'm thinking a set of headspace gauges may be in my future, as well as a dry day at the range to see if this was just a case of moisture causing increased pressure in the chamber. Given the consistency with which it seems to be leaving ejector marks, I think I should be able to ascertain if it's a moisture-caused issue pretty quick... That said, pulling the trigger on this thing knowing this is what it did to the last few rounds put through it.. well... suffice it to say, is not something I look forward to.
 
Beats the hell out of me... I bought and fired them yesterday, it's a little early for brass to be turning green! Could be the residue from gases escaping around the primer though...

But here's something that will probably confuse even further (since it's got me the most concerned): when I worked the bolt to eject these rounds, I didn't notice any increase in the effort required... and the primers remained in the action. So, they were all either popping out and bouncing back into the action when the round was pushed off the bolt face by the ejector, or...?
 
I suggest that you not shoot any more of that ammo. You have a severe "over pressure" situation for sure, either defective ammo or defective rifle. Brass will not extrude into the ejector plunger unless the load is producing much much over safe pressure limits. Primer pockets will also not open up until the same over pressure situation occurs.
Case necks that are too long could easily cause this condition even with a normal powder charge - not enough room for the neck to expand and release the bullet without driving up pressure. Check those cases with a caliper - max case length may have been exceeded. Max is 2.620"
If the unfired cases length exceeds this by much, it is an ammo problem for sure. I think Winchester will want to know about this in any case.
 
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