220 Grainers in 30-06

Demonical said:
Add me to the list of people that say it would be a hoot to load some up and shoot black bears, grizzlies, moose etc, with a 220gr out of the .30-06.

I keep getting the notion to load some up in my .300H&H, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Woodleigh makes a 240gr conventional, lead core bullet in .308 caliber. Those would be fun!!

Heaviest I have loaded and shot with in the .30-06 are 200gr bullets.

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BEAUTY BULL!!!:cheers:
 
What a heavier bullet is about is penetration; if your hunting the biggest animals in North America, and taking shots that may be plowing through a lot of meat to get to the vitals, it makes sense to use a 220gr bullet in a 30-06. As far as the premium bullets go in the 30-06, I've been using the 180gr Hornady interlock for years without a failure (even smacking through bone they expand perfectly); I don't plan on changing any time soon, unless some "bureaucrat" tells me that lead is illegal.
Mike
 
JasonS said:
And BUM with your recoil issues how did you ever get through your Africa hunt? ;)
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Anyone who says they like excessive recoil is a liar or sports a black leather codpiece. :p

I can take recoild to a certain extent. Whiel you'd likely never notice the difference in teh field, if you were sitting there developing a load with 220s it would wear you out faster than 180s. Plus, today's 180's are the 200 or 220s of yesteryear. What the Woodleigh 240s equal I'm not sure...probably the 35 Whelan with awesome SD and penetration.
 
I think 220's and a 30-06 is a very respectable combination. While probably not what I would use as my "one load", I would carry a handful of them for close work in wounded game, or use them regularly with an open-sighted brush gun.

I do shoot 210gr Berger VLD's in my P17, and they are my standard load for that rifle.
 
mike shickele said:
What a heavier bullet is about is penetration; if your hunting the biggest animals in North America, and taking shots that may be plowing through a lot of meat to get to the vitals, it makes sense to use a 220gr bullet in a 30-06. As far as the premium bullets go in the 30-06, I've been using the 180gr Hornady interlock for years without a failure (even smacking through bone they expand perfectly); I don't plan on changing any time soon, unless some "bureaucrat" tells me that lead is illegal.
Mike
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Using traditional bullets this is true, but the 180gr X bullet will out penetrate all of them.

If the 220gr Nosler or 240gr Woodleigh has an advantage its likely to do with the round nosed shape and abrupt impact that shape creates....

Cool factor for sure, but I'm not sure it does anything better.
 
A lot of conjecture about "recoil" etc , I just know that I had zero fun working up loads for the 220 grainers. I loaded about 100 rounds one evening working with 3 powders and starting at the low end and working up to max. I headed to the range and began testing. Anyhow, after 25 rounds or so, I remember saying "F%@k This" and went home, pulled the bullets, dumped the powder, and reloaded the cases a week later with 180 grainers. Anyhow, I prefer my guns lately to shooter longer and flatter with smaller premium bullets. (My hunting here has more LONG open shots on frozen lakes than anywhere else I have lived) I just do what works for me. Nowadays, I just use 150 gr triple shock bullets for everything in my .30-06
If I need bigger, I take out my .444 marlin for the close up stuff.
 
just for conversation, Phil Shoemaker says this about a 30-06/220NP penetration capabilities

this fall I tested penetration of various bullets in damp magazines with the 30-06 and included the 180 TSX, 200 gr Swift , 220 Partitions and 220 Woodleighs and the 240gr Woodleighs.
In order of penetration - with the deepest first - was the 220 Partition ( 13 inches) Followed by the 200 Swift and 180 TSX ( 11 inches) , 240 Woodleigh PP ( 10") and finally the 220 RN Woodleigh ( 8 1/2")
I also tested both 220 Woodleigh solids and the old Hornady 220 steel jacketed solids and they both exited 48" .

For a comparison I also fired 270 gr TSX from a .375 and got 11 inches, the 400gr Hornady DGX .416 ( 10 inches) , The 570 gr TSX from my 505 Gibbs ( 13 inches) and a couple of 900 gr Woodleighs from a 600 Overkill ( 9 & 13 inches)

You can see that in the penetration department that 220 Partitions give up little to other calibers. In fact I carried my 30-06 this season as backup during bear season and was forced to followup a wounded bear that charged from 5 yards.
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rgv said:
just for conversation, Phil Shoemaker says this about a 30-06/220NP penetration capabilities
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I take it back! :D

IIRC the 220 Partition was designed for optimal performance in the 30-06.
Reaching way back in my memories here, but I believe the front core blows off instantly when shot at Magnum velocities.

Would be a cool combination to test in a bullet box.
 
Paging Demonical. Demonical please come to the bullet testing aisle for a 220 NPT test.

I wonder, based on what Mr Shoemaker says, if the 200 TSX wouldn't penetrate even better than the 220 NPT? Seeing as it duplicated the penetration of the heavier A Frame with 10% less bullet weight. Actually, I think I have a part box of 200 TSX in my stuff packed to move... Hmm... 52gr of IMR4350 to the tune of 2400 and change.

Interestingly enough, Barnes lists the same loads for several powders and velocities less than 50 FPS different between their 200 TSX FB and 220 SRN.
 
The 220 IMHO actually makes the 30-06 an interesting rifle. No better deal out there then a sportered P17 (with the original peep site) and couple boxes of 220 grain bullets. ( I say the P17 cause both the twist and the chamber on many were designed for a 220 grain bullet IIRC)
It was the poor man's answer before tradex brought us the 9.3s.

As noted above the SD is great and the improved BC means your giving up less then the velocity numbers would lead you to believe. Might not be as flat shooting but if you are gunning for yotes past 325 yards maybe just bring a range finder LOL. Punch in the numbers for H4831s load in a ballistic calculator and compare to a 180 grain spire point started at 2700fps. If both have a 225 zero you will need to compensate an extra inch as the bullet reaches it peak trajectory and a whopping 2 inches at 300 yards. Beyond 350 even if you have a hot rodded 180 you are gonna need a range finder no matter which bullet you are using. The only diffrence is that the 220 is gonna hold more energy and be harder to displace windage wise.

There is a reason some wise guy said always load the heaviest bullet your rifle will stabilize. NOw if only I could stabilize a 190 grain bullet in a swede mauser LOL.
 
I still think that there is no replacement for displacement and there is a place for the 220 in the ought six. The Hornady 220 RN over a good dose of H4831 has blasted a number of moose for our family and has provided numerous one shot kills through a lot of brush. Always penetrates like there is no tomorrow and leaves huge holes. It is not supposed to be the trajectory king.
 
David, when I was a kid growing up in northern bushland Saskatchewan, the only cartridge available for the 6.5 Mauser was that looong, 160 grain round nose Dominion.
It had a good reputation as a moose and elk killer.
Bruce
 
H4831 said:
David, when I was a kid growing up in northern bushland Saskatchewan, the only cartridge available for the 6.5 Mauser was that looong, 160 grain round nose Dominion.
It had a good reputation as a moose and elk killer.
Bruce
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The 160 gr 6.5 has a good reputation all over, and for bigger than moose too. Ask Mr Bell.
 
Bruce I have never killed a moose or an elk with anything but! Started at 2550 they fetch up on the offside hide everytime. In my 98 they start at 2650. Got literally a crate of 156 norma alaskans down stairs (had a chance once to buy an endless supply at 15 per 100 and I did buy an endless supply!) should last out my future grandkids. I have over a dozen recovered bullets on the desk here and only one does'nt look like a text book mushroom (it took a bit of bad shot placement and alot of bone to make it look that way i.e no core) The hornadys are no slouch either and the vulcan and ornyx offering from norma peak my interest. I think LApua makes a 156 premium bullet as well but my certainty that I can't afford it prevents my interest.

Aside from mr bell's FMJ accomplishments, Mr E Kieth published penetration data for the manlicher cartridge started at maybe2400 fps (?) only the 45-70-500 went deeper. Caveats: IIRC and I am prone to beliving good things about the .264 bullets LOL.

Sorry for the off topic. to get back on a 30-06 launching a 220 grain bullet at 2400 fps would in my simple world be almost as good as a swede! And better if a guy could lay hands on a few decades worth of 220 grain bullets. or just 500.
 
Just looked it up and Kieth put the 220 grain 30-40 Krag remington cartridge and the 6.5MS ahead of the .270 , 300wm and 30-06 180 grain cartridges for penetration.

the 45-70-500, 400 jeffery and 45/120/566 out performed all of the above.

I'd say that the 30-40 loading would have been very very modest compared to what a handloader would accomplish in a modern action.

Tests were performed in what he felt stimulated bear muscle
 
I didn't read much of the posts, but of course, I will comment...:p

If you only have a 30-06 and want to use it as a "stopping" cartridge for big bears, the 220gr Partition is probably a good choice.

If you want a general purpose hunting bullet, anything form a 150gr TTSX to a 180gr Hornady is probably a better choice...

Although it is important to note that the heavy bullets of yesteryear penetrated and killed with moderate velocity, like the magnums and super bullets of today.

a 215gr .303 bullet was a helluva penetrator...
Just gotta get closer...;)
 
I spoke yesterday with a gun maker who built a 505 Gibbs for a client to hunt Elephants with. Apparently, based on the Elephant hunting experience, bigger and heavier is not always better.

Give me the slick feeding nature and 5 in the belly with a 30-06 over anything bigger any day. Plus the thing is useful for more than just daydreaming with.
 
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