what is the difference between MN 91/30 and 91/30 sniper?
- Thread starter hemingway
- Start date
ahah really?
reason i'm asking is i'm new to rifle shooting and i like the old red stuff (a lot). at the end of the day for that 400 bucks i could get some decent optics or a dillon 550. if the only thing you're paying that 4-500 bucks for are vintage optics, seems to me the smart money is on the reg 91/30 with new optics =)
Deltasilver
Regular
- Location
- Right behind you...
ahah really?
reason i'm asking is i'm new to rifle shooting and i like the old red stuff (a lot). at the end of the day for that 400 bucks i could get some decent optics or a dillon 550. if the only thing you're paying that 4-500 bucks for are vintage optics, seems to me the smart money is on the reg 91/30 with new optics =)
Or you could buy yourself a nice package deal Savage in .308 with a composite stock, accu-trigger and an entry level Tasco for the same cash.
New optics? Why? It's a period accurate reproduction of a Russian "sniper" rifle. It's meant to appeal to people who want a period accurate reproduction of a Russian "sniper" rifle.
You fixin' to wander into Bubba's backyard? This isn't the forum for it.
i'm not sure what you mean by this, or what the assumptions that underlie it are but you seem to have misappropriated the intent of the question.
the thread was moved here from the red rifles forum, presumably because the only difference between the 91/30 and its sniper variant was the scope, and not mechanical, which was really all i was trying to establish.
Hemimgway, "Bubba" is someone who'll take a historically-accurate rifle, and permanently alter it to look cool, thereby destroying any heritage value.
Deltasilver's colorful comment (it is my assumption, and I know I could be wrong) was to illustrate the fact that if you were looking for advices on how to drill and tap an intact 91/30 to bolt a NCStar scope on it, well this wouldn't be the best place to receive valid input and words of encouragement.
Now, back on topic - these reproductions: you get a historically-correct sniper, with new-but-exactly-as-the-original scope mount and scope. I think (folks, correct me if I'm wrong) that you also get the correct variation of the 91/30 ("high wall" receiver?). For comparison's sake, I saw an original sniper 91/30 sell about a year ago for $1300 (should have bought it...), and I haven't seen one since. So at $800, it appears most buyers are satisfied. As I've heard, the quality of the hardware is there. But again that's just what I've read on this forum.
Lou
Deltasilver's colorful comment (it is my assumption, and I know I could be wrong) was to illustrate the fact that if you were looking for advices on how to drill and tap an intact 91/30 to bolt a NCStar scope on it, well this wouldn't be the best place to receive valid input and words of encouragement.
Now, back on topic - these reproductions: you get a historically-correct sniper, with new-but-exactly-as-the-original scope mount and scope. I think (folks, correct me if I'm wrong) that you also get the correct variation of the 91/30 ("high wall" receiver?). For comparison's sake, I saw an original sniper 91/30 sell about a year ago for $1300 (should have bought it...), and I haven't seen one since. So at $800, it appears most buyers are satisfied. As I've heard, the quality of the hardware is there. But again that's just what I've read on this forum.
Lou
Incidentally, if one found the stock open sights wanting, one could purchase a no-gunsmith scout scope mount that fits over where the rear sight is located and put a red dot or scout scope on it. The NCStar scopes are the cheapest (and a hit/miss option when it comes to durability), though I think Bushnell has a decent one for about $200. The rifle could be restored to original condition rather easily, though someone considering this option for hunting will probably want to look to the M38 or M44, which are handier in the bush.
There is another option open to you as well. Many of the milsurp rifles that were released a couple of years ago, were ex sniper rifles that had the holes drilled and tapped for the scope mounts, then when they were sent back for refurbishment and had the holes filled with a screw and welded over/refinished. There is some discussion as to whether or not they were ever set up completely or not. From the outside, they are usually impossible to make out. Some of them still have the barrels that have been stamped with the extra set of numbers/letters on the left side of the barrel and some don't. I've never seen one of the reproductions with these numbers. It's the first give away to look for.
The Russians, supposedly, didn't select their rifles for accuracy. Supposedly, they were procucing so many of them that they just had new rifles delivered to the assembley area for fitting of scopes and mounts.
91/30 rifles, in good condition, can be very accurate, with good ammunition.
The Russians, supposedly, didn't select their rifles for accuracy. Supposedly, they were procucing so many of them that they just had new rifles delivered to the assembley area for fitting of scopes and mounts.
91/30 rifles, in good condition, can be very accurate, with good ammunition.
Deltasilver
Regular
- Location
- Right behind you...
*chuckles*
I coulda sworn I tacked one of those little razzy face thingies on the end of my comment - pardon for the somewhat biting tone, it was meant to be taken as gentle sarcasm.
"Colorful". Thanks Lou
In 2008 it cost me $1200 all in. The US state department needs a kick in the nuts.
As has been said, physically they're almost identical. They all came from the same place, just on some occasions the snipers were selected for better accuracy. Some ex snipers may be bad shooters now because they were shot out and reverted to regular M91/30's.
Most people work it out and after buying the $250 scope and mounts and paying for the work to alter the gun you've got your $400-$500 in extra cost.
If you want a modern scope on a mosin, I would opt for the no gunsmithing mount that uses the rear sight and a long eye relief scope. Not really worth it dropping a lot of coin on a mosin unless it's going to add to its value by making it historically accurate... otherwise you have yet another bubba gun, all hacked up and not worth the cost of the labour into it.
Most people work it out and after buying the $250 scope and mounts and paying for the work to alter the gun you've got your $400-$500 in extra cost.
If you want a modern scope on a mosin, I would opt for the no gunsmithing mount that uses the rear sight and a long eye relief scope. Not really worth it dropping a lot of coin on a mosin unless it's going to add to its value by making it historically accurate... otherwise you have yet another bubba gun, all hacked up and not worth the cost of the labour into it.
I'm gonna pop my head up for a minute now.
Friend, the ONLY way to get TOP accuracy from your Moisin-Nagant is to handload for it. When the military ammo hits the shops, it generally is old machine-gun stuff that had a LOT of dispersion built into it when it was made..... 40 or 50 years ago. It is 'surplus' for a REASON. Remember, Russia and several other countries are still using this as their sniping and medium machine-gun ammo, so they aren't disposing of it because they don't need it any more. They are disposing of it because they don't WANT it... and they can get us to pay evil Yankee $$$ for the privilege of taking their garbage off their hands.
With handloading, YOU are in control of the ammunition-manufacturing process and you can tailor a load which will work wonders in YOUR rifle.
That, and a bit of careful work on the bedding, woodwork and trigger and you can make an old MN 91/30 shoot well enough that you are going to WANT a scope. When that day comes, re-read what louthepou said about a scope mount. Lou is bang-on as usual. You can add a most UNsatisfactory mount to a stock MN for a lot of dollars. For LESS dollars, actually, you can put on an S&K mount and a LER scope which is 10 times BETTER and HALF the price of the ones 20 years ago.
For historical accuracy, the MN should be shot with the bayonet ON. That's what they were factory-sighted to do, with a 150-grain bullet.
And there is always what you were asking about: a more-or-less genuine MN sniper rifle, done up exactly the way that Vassily Zaitsev's rifle was done. The optics might LOOK funny from our perspective but they DO work and they ARE clear and, for the purposes they were designed for, they ARE worthwhile. MANY of these were done on the 'high-wall' receiver: left-hand rail was higher and more solid than the standard rail, affording a better mounting surface for the scope base. Others were done on standard frames. The guys in this forum KNOW what they are talking about; most of them WILL give you good advice.
As for Bubba, I'll give you one tiny example that you might appreciate. I picked up a Moisin-Nagant that Bubba had got his hands on. It was a FINNISH Dragoon rifle with a new PEACETIME inter-war barrel on it. It was about a $500 rifle when it started, but I got it for 50 bucks because it was beyond repair. I repaired it, with its own wood. Shoots real nice, too. But it is still only a $250 gun. That's why everybody detests Bubba.
You're having fun with your old MN now. Check out what the local clubs are doing. Around here, we have regular matches for old military rifles and they are fun. Some guys even turn out for Running Deer and other fairly-precision shoots with old military rifles and shoot against the modern stuff. It is quite amazing just how well these old-timers can score.
And, by the way, you will ALWAYS get better accuracy from a 91/30 with a .311 or even a .312 bullet. I have several that really like their Hornady 150 SPs.
And, whatever you do: have fun!
Okay, guys, I'm back in the trench; you can let fly any time now!
Friend, the ONLY way to get TOP accuracy from your Moisin-Nagant is to handload for it. When the military ammo hits the shops, it generally is old machine-gun stuff that had a LOT of dispersion built into it when it was made..... 40 or 50 years ago. It is 'surplus' for a REASON. Remember, Russia and several other countries are still using this as their sniping and medium machine-gun ammo, so they aren't disposing of it because they don't need it any more. They are disposing of it because they don't WANT it... and they can get us to pay evil Yankee $$$ for the privilege of taking their garbage off their hands.
With handloading, YOU are in control of the ammunition-manufacturing process and you can tailor a load which will work wonders in YOUR rifle.
That, and a bit of careful work on the bedding, woodwork and trigger and you can make an old MN 91/30 shoot well enough that you are going to WANT a scope. When that day comes, re-read what louthepou said about a scope mount. Lou is bang-on as usual. You can add a most UNsatisfactory mount to a stock MN for a lot of dollars. For LESS dollars, actually, you can put on an S&K mount and a LER scope which is 10 times BETTER and HALF the price of the ones 20 years ago.
For historical accuracy, the MN should be shot with the bayonet ON. That's what they were factory-sighted to do, with a 150-grain bullet.
And there is always what you were asking about: a more-or-less genuine MN sniper rifle, done up exactly the way that Vassily Zaitsev's rifle was done. The optics might LOOK funny from our perspective but they DO work and they ARE clear and, for the purposes they were designed for, they ARE worthwhile. MANY of these were done on the 'high-wall' receiver: left-hand rail was higher and more solid than the standard rail, affording a better mounting surface for the scope base. Others were done on standard frames. The guys in this forum KNOW what they are talking about; most of them WILL give you good advice.
As for Bubba, I'll give you one tiny example that you might appreciate. I picked up a Moisin-Nagant that Bubba had got his hands on. It was a FINNISH Dragoon rifle with a new PEACETIME inter-war barrel on it. It was about a $500 rifle when it started, but I got it for 50 bucks because it was beyond repair. I repaired it, with its own wood. Shoots real nice, too. But it is still only a $250 gun. That's why everybody detests Bubba.
You're having fun with your old MN now. Check out what the local clubs are doing. Around here, we have regular matches for old military rifles and they are fun. Some guys even turn out for Running Deer and other fairly-precision shoots with old military rifles and shoot against the modern stuff. It is quite amazing just how well these old-timers can score.
And, by the way, you will ALWAYS get better accuracy from a 91/30 with a .311 or even a .312 bullet. I have several that really like their Hornady 150 SPs.
And, whatever you do: have fun!
Okay, guys, I'm back in the trench; you can let fly any time now!
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