IDPA - holster certification question
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I give all new shooters at our club an orientation. As an SO that's my obligation if they have limited or no experience. I also am right beside the shooter throughout any CoFs which means I monitor everyone, regardless of experience or qualifications or certificates.
The problem is equating the NSO course to a "holster" course. It's an orientation to IDPA. It doesn't teach a method of drawing/reholstering. It merely provides the framework for a shooter to demonstrate they can use a holster without causing any safety issues.
Maybe it's a semantics issue but I don't see it that way.
We run our NSO courses with dry and live fire drills which are aimed at developing the proper safety skills. We also run a 3-4 stage mini-match after the skills parts. Would this not fall into the realm of a holster course?
I think that's a good question.
If you can point to the part of your course where you said, "now draw like this" and "reholster like this" you can certainly say it's a holster course.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Oshawa, Ontario
Apparently not.
So, differing opinions are not permitted in civil discussion?
If IDPA made a holster safety and orientation course mandatory, kind of like IPSC did with the Black Badge would you have an issue with this? If the answer is yes please state your reasons. I am not trying to start anything here just curious.
I'm not sure I should answer that question, but what the hell. Flame suit on.
Yes, I would be concerned with that. For locales like Ontario where the CFO requires it (or something like it), obviously it has to be done. If it was made mandatory for the rest of Canada, despite not being required, I would not be in favour.
Right now, our SOs and shooters are doing a good job of being safe. We take safety seriously. Adding a mandatory orientation course would not change that. I'd be concerned that it would discourage new shooters, by making it hard for them to get to a NSO class, and that it might evolve into an expensive undertaking. Would current IDPA shooters be "grandfathered"? Good question. Who would do the NSO classes? Most likely the same SOs who are teaching the new shooters right now, using methods much like those contained in the NSO.
It would probably help the new shooter get a quicker handle on the rules and procedures of IDPA, but I don't believe it would make the sport safer.
I personally got involved with IDPA with the belief that it was a "minimal BS" sport. Adding mandatory courses that are not required by the rule book or by the local "authorities" is not consistent with that view. If the NSO course could be clearly shown to produce a safer shooter, I'd be happy to reconsider that opinion.
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I hope nobody flames you for your opinion. Even though I am for a mandatory course I appreciate your thoughts.
Take Care,
Chris
We are making assumptions that IDPA members from other clubs coming to our hosted matches have the necessary skills to compete; they know the rules to the sport and are proficient with handgun manipulation and safety.
It is usually very apparent who are comfortable and have the knowledge base when they step to the line and are given a load and make ready, and those that are not.
If they are new shooters our SOs are very adept at sheparding them, but if there is indication they are unsafe it is quite possible they will be disqualified.
We are not demanding that people be experts in the sport, we just want them to have command of the basics. Those basics go beyond acts and prove.
Frankly, all this talk on a "Holster Course" has me somewhat baffled. I have the IDPA New Shooters Information Packet Version 3.5 updated 10/18/2008 in front of me, and I fail to see any "Holster Certification Requirement" Am I to assume that this is an Ontario thing? Although, on my orientation course a few years back, holstering was covered, and on the Orientations I plan to hold, this will also be covered, but, at least here in Alberta, there is no formal "Holster Course" that is a requirement.
Currently it is not mandatory to take a holster safety course for IDPA.
I guess I can use the analogy of putting fire insurance on your house. You will probably live your whole life without needing that insurance but I think we can agree that everyone gets it just in case.
I feel the same way about a terrible accident due to someone not having somekind of holster training. Even if a shooter is trying his/her hardest to be safe, lack of experience shooting on the move and drawing from a holster could cause at the very least a bullet lodged in someone's foot/leg or a ricochet hitting yours truly while I am SOing.
Maybe it's not just a holster course I want but an all around IDPA practices course involing reloading, shooting on the move and drawing from a holster. I am an IDPA safety officer, have my CDP shield and am taking the Black Badge in August. I think IPSC got it right with the Black Badge.
Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from as well. In a way it's a catch22 because we have enough rules/restrictions involving our guns.
For me it isn't so much a "Holster Qualification" that is needed. Drawing from a holster safely is a pretty easily taught task in of itself. What I do think is needed is a Handgun Safety/Competency/Confidence course, which weeds out any potential unsafe individuals before they are unleashed to the general shooting public. I do think the BB Course for IPSC has achieved this.
I do hate/loathe more regulation of individuals as much as anyone, but I also think there has to be a balance struck between the safety of others that are at a shoot, and the intrusiveness of a competency course. As well, I don't want to see my gun club shut down, or any gun club shut down for that matter, over a possible liability issue!
I do hate/loathe more regulation of individuals as much as anyone, but I also think there has to be a balance struck between the safety of others that are at a shoot, and the intrusiveness of a competency course. As well, I don't want to see my gun club shut down, or any gun club shut down for that matter, over a possible liability issue!
Speaking of liability: How much does the SO who signs off on a NSO or other certificate assume? What happens when a shooter who has been certified safe and competent has an ND and injures themselves or someone else?
As I understand it, IDPA Canada does not provide any liability coverage to it's SOs.
As I understand it, IDPA Canada does not provide any liability coverage to it's SOs.
Legally I'm not sure. The NSO course doesn't guarantee a shooter is safe, it merely states they completed the course. There is no pass/fail to my knowledge. The restricted firearms exam doesn't guarantee a shooter to be safe either, even though it outlines basic gun safety requirements. All the NSO course does is outline basic holster safety requirements and other things like reloading & shooting on the move. Our club has club insurance with CSSA, I'd would hope that is sufficient.
Really, this isn't a huge issue to me. A licensed individual assumes the liability of using their gun if someone gets hurt but you never really know who is liable until the courts have a case in front of them.
I generally don't support holster courses. Perhaps a better approach would be to let anyone shoot, but the instant an unsafe action happens, its a DQ, automatic and no questions asked. Then a holster course is required before they can shoot again. Moving from club to club to shoot would produce some tracking problems, but its probably not a huge issue, any MD/SO at a club will follow the same principle of DQing a shooter right away for an unsafe action.
More than anything, I hate putting new shooters (sometimes very experienced shooters in other disciplines) through too many hoops to get started....all because someone before them didn't have quite the required level of safety competence on a CoF.
That makes no sense......would you hand someone your car keys that had no license, and send them off? And until they cause an accident, they don't have to get a license? There are other peoples lives to consider here, not just the one that is in control of the car/firearm!
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