The "How do you choose a hunting cal" line below started me thinking and while a was playing with the Winchester Ballistics Calculator (fave toy) not only did I see the 7mm-08, 270, 308, and 30-06 were so close as to be considered almost the same ballistically I thought I would play a little further. I ran the 308 and 30-06 with a 180gr Powerpoint. So close as to be almost interchangeable. So my question is "How can this be?" considering the sizes of the cases are so different. The "06 has almost a full 1/2in of case over the 308 yet only performs marginally better. Or should I be looking at more than the ballistics?
How can this be??
- Thread starter bogie
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1) Make sure you have realistic muzzle velocities and ballistic coefficients for all your loads.
2) You just discovered the inconvenient truth that pretty much all the typical hunting calibers from 6.5mm up are interchangeable inside of 300yds. Some of the hotter ones pull away a bit as you get out to 400yds and farther, but that is only a tiny percentage of all game shot. I am sure the vast majority is closer to 100yds and all the calibres are the same at that point.
Mark
But if you look very closely, the 270 is superior and choosing it will allow you to walk on water across a pond to heal a wounded swan, make you a better dancer, and totally eliminate the chance of being abducted by aliens. Truly the "Thinking Man's" cartridge of choice 
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30.06 has more variety of all the other ammo put together. When you need a box of ammo and you're in Hickville Nowhere County, you will always find several varieties of 30.06. The "thinking man" doesn't think about buying bullets in small towns, but instead goes home early while you continue to hunt for a few more weeks.
You have made a very interesting observation.
The typical knee jerk response to the question of what is more powerful a 308 win or 3006 - most guys would simply answer 3006. But it's a loaded question, because it also depends heavily on the weight and ballistic cooeficient of the bullet and the distance of a particular shot.
Given the 155 SMK a 308 winchester will outperform a 3006 with 180 grain Sierra Pro Hunter bullet at 600 yards all day long. Reverse the bullets and the opposite will be true.
In addition, in relation to powder capacity there is the point of diminishing returns. As the powder charge is increased the powder burn rate must be decreased to stay within pressure limits. So the more powder in the case, the less efficiently it is used.
This also applies to bullet weight. As the bullet weight is increased, the powder burn rate must be decreased. So heavy bullet and large case capacity is inefficient for 2 reasons. For that reason you will often find smaller rounds that perform similarily to large overbore rounds.
In the case of 3006, typically it's offered with heavier 180 to 200 grain bullets which often have no better BC than a 155 grain SMK, especially in hunting bullets.
As the distance is increased, the payoff of having a good BC really pays off because it does not slow down at the same rate as a low BC typical hunting type bullet.
Beyond all of the above, confusion is deliberately created by marketing literature of the companies who produce this stuff, simply as a means of selling it to guys who dont know any better or even care. Some guys just like Camaros and other guys like Baracudas. Who cares why?
In the end, you are very correct in the similarity between most of them is hardly worth arguing about, and I cant begin to imagine the number of teeth that have been knocked out at hunting camps arguing over the difference.
In terms of round selection, I personnaly like the formula that seems to hold true for the most succesful long range target rounds, as follows. Using the heaviest bullet available in each caliber, the case powder charge should be about 1/3 of the bullet weight. Pick the weight of bullet you want to shoot, .224= 80 grain, 6mm 115 grain, 6.5mm= 142 grain, 7mm =180 grain, 308 =240 grain. Then go to the reloading manual and find a case that holds about 1/3 of the bullet weight in powder charge...
.224= 27 grains powder, 6mm = 38 grains powder, 6.5 mm = 47 grains powder, 7mm = 60 grains powder, 308 = 80 grains powder. In terms of ballistics you cannot go wrong if you follow this formula.
If you dont care about long range and just want to pick a round based on availability, forget this tech stuff and get whatever you can readily find. They all kill on impact if you place it right.
The typical knee jerk response to the question of what is more powerful a 308 win or 3006 - most guys would simply answer 3006. But it's a loaded question, because it also depends heavily on the weight and ballistic cooeficient of the bullet and the distance of a particular shot.
Given the 155 SMK a 308 winchester will outperform a 3006 with 180 grain Sierra Pro Hunter bullet at 600 yards all day long. Reverse the bullets and the opposite will be true.
In addition, in relation to powder capacity there is the point of diminishing returns. As the powder charge is increased the powder burn rate must be decreased to stay within pressure limits. So the more powder in the case, the less efficiently it is used.
This also applies to bullet weight. As the bullet weight is increased, the powder burn rate must be decreased. So heavy bullet and large case capacity is inefficient for 2 reasons. For that reason you will often find smaller rounds that perform similarily to large overbore rounds.
In the case of 3006, typically it's offered with heavier 180 to 200 grain bullets which often have no better BC than a 155 grain SMK, especially in hunting bullets.
As the distance is increased, the payoff of having a good BC really pays off because it does not slow down at the same rate as a low BC typical hunting type bullet.
Beyond all of the above, confusion is deliberately created by marketing literature of the companies who produce this stuff, simply as a means of selling it to guys who dont know any better or even care. Some guys just like Camaros and other guys like Baracudas. Who cares why?
In the end, you are very correct in the similarity between most of them is hardly worth arguing about, and I cant begin to imagine the number of teeth that have been knocked out at hunting camps arguing over the difference.
In terms of round selection, I personnaly like the formula that seems to hold true for the most succesful long range target rounds, as follows. Using the heaviest bullet available in each caliber, the case powder charge should be about 1/3 of the bullet weight. Pick the weight of bullet you want to shoot, .224= 80 grain, 6mm 115 grain, 6.5mm= 142 grain, 7mm =180 grain, 308 =240 grain. Then go to the reloading manual and find a case that holds about 1/3 of the bullet weight in powder charge...
.224= 27 grains powder, 6mm = 38 grains powder, 6.5 mm = 47 grains powder, 7mm = 60 grains powder, 308 = 80 grains powder. In terms of ballistics you cannot go wrong if you follow this formula.
If you dont care about long range and just want to pick a round based on availability, forget this tech stuff and get whatever you can readily find. They all kill on impact if you place it right.
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Because the Hicks that don't know any better shoot the 30-06.
The thinking man is smart enough to remember to take his ammunition with him when he goes on a hunt.He finds his game,shoots it,then takes it home. The non thinking man spends weeks walking home,because he also forgot his wallet,and doesn't have gas money or a credit card to buy gas to drive home.He is also so stupid that he forgot to charge his cell phone,so he can't call home to have them send him money,or bring him gas.
Last but not least,he didn't kill any game,because he had no ammunition.
And by the way,what good are bullets if you didn't bring your press or other reloading tools and components with you?
You dont.
My reference to .308 is the bullet diameter - not to be confused with the 308 winchester.
What I'm saying is that if you want to shoot a 240 grain bullet, pick a 308 caliber cartridge where the case holds 80 grains of powder.
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30.06 is like 12guage ammo. Very popular, buy it anywhere in many shapes and forms. A .270 is like a 28guage, no sale prices, little selection and good luck finding it in anything less than a major sports retail store. Personally, I have a .270, but I find my .06 out performs it in most of my hunting conditions.
Half the hunting members on this site own a 30.06, maybe you shouldn't be so liberal as to who you personally feel is a"hick". I think that is quite uncalled for. If you want to think you're smarter than everyone because of the gun you own, have it your way but you're in a group by yourself. Maybe you can take your loading press on the back of your quad in case you drop a pack in the water, lose your box of home loads, or the wrong container ended up in the wrong vehicle?
That said I thought I would check my reloading books and picked 3 powders to see if the load was the same. NOT. Typically 5gr heavier load as I expected. So it appears that the factory stuff may be loaded closer together but handloading specs would differ significantly from what I see. There SHOULD be a fair difference. Then again Im glad I reload so I dont have to worry about what is NOT in the case. Oh dear-more load workup, however will I cope?? Guess I better get on it. I have a HOT load for my '06 that kicks like a bugger but is accurate as all get out with a 180gr pointy boolit. Guess I got some chrony work in my future. Got a couple weeks off in Aug so playtime. Have to look for some more load info perhaps from Hodgden.
It was actually you that brought the "hick" into this thread.Did you forget that it was you that posted:
So who do you suppose that you would call people that live in "Hickville" other than "hicks"?
If if they stock 30-06 ammunition in Hickville,isn't it likely that a lot of those "hicks" shoot the 30-06?Hence my earlier statement.
If you feel that the term "hick" was uncalled for in this thread,blame yourself for introducing the term to this thread.
The "thinking man" ,another term you introduced to this thread by the way,does not put all of his ammunition in one place,and he uses a checklist to ensure that he doesn't forget his ammunition,or any other essential gear.I have been hunting for over 35 years,and I have yet to ever forget my ammunition,or run out of ammunition on a hunt.As such,I have never had to purchase "bullets",or loaded ammunition,in "Hickville",or any other place while on a hunt.
By the way,bullets aren't of much value unless you have cartridge cases,powder,primers,and the tools to load them into loaded ammunition.And most out of the way stores in places like Hickville, only sell loaded ammunition anyways,they normally don't sell "bullets" or other reloading components.
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The only problem with this comparison is that one is a match bullet and the other is a hunting bullet. Unless you regularly shoot game with a SMK, the point is moot.
The point about BC making more of a difference as you stretch the range is absolutely correct, though, even if almost no game is shot at 600yds.
Man, you think 270 is like 28ga? What do you call 6.5x55, then?
Mark
Powders improved since the birth of some of these cartridges. So some of the smaller guys were able to catch up. 308 Winchester creeped up to 30-06 levels over the years, the actions and brass being tough enough. 30-06 being happy to stay where it was.
I may be wrong, but wasn't the .308 supposed to match the .30-06 ballistics (in the lighter grain bullets) from the get-go with relatively newer powders? I mean, that was kinda the point of the .300 Savage and the .308 Winchester that was based on it...
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Meh, shoot a moose or deer with whatever. Use a good bullet and shoot it in the right spot and it dies.
mmattockx, Aaaawww c'mon... it would be nice if guys would refrain from jumping on every vauge opportunity to misdirect and be critical of a guy's post. Those sort of pot stirring remarks make participation in CGN more of a challenge than it needs to be. Please try to be constructive. I do like your avatar BTW.
I referenced the 155 SMK as an example of a bullet with a good BC for it's weight. That is not to say that game should not be shot with this bullet as it is actually quite good for hunting, even though most guys probably don’t know that. Without beating on that point, even traditional hunting bullets are offered with different BCs and an astute hunter should be knowledgeable about the point and should select his bullet with BC in mind.
The advantage of a good BC begins at the muzzle not at 600 yards. The point was made to throw some light on the question of why a seemingly superior round does not upon close inspection seem so superior after all from a ballistic perspective, and to how a guy can maximize the ballistic performance of the caliber he has.
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