Cowboys shooting it out, right now

ben hunchak

ben hunchak

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Just got back from the first day of the CAS shoot in Saskatoon, great weather good turnout(at least 60 shooters). Some folks in from AB. and Mb., folks can still shoot tomorrow, come out and shoot or watch. Just one thing that find a bit disappointing, and this has been coming for a while, it's not really an equipment race but folks are trying to use the smallest cals. with the lightest loads, in an attempt to gain speed through less recoil. Some ammo sounds like it is barely making it to the steel targets. They may have changed the rules, whereby you don't have to knock down the steel targets, just hit them!! I believe that this sport should be shot with BP and it would also keep everyone on an even keel.
 
I shoot CAS and agree with you that the use of .38 special loaded lighter then PPC loads is a joke. I love the time periods firearms and the being apart of a group of shooters that enjoy the same history.

The last two matches I have shot, I never used any sights and only have one miss during a match. The old days of aiming small and missing small are long gone.

I now shoot for just fun and try to not let these things bother me. Gamey shooters shooting squirrel loads and shooting target so big you don't even need to aim is the end of a shooting sport and the beginning of a fashion show.
 
I agree about those mouse phart loads some are using Ben.
Did anyone chrony the loads and work out the power factor?
I know the SASS minimum power factor is something of a joke to us WARTHOGS but it might be a start.
I know I'd like to see the SASS power factor raised to something meaningful.
 
Well, I agree for the most part except for BP. IIRC BP is corrosive? So that would rule me out as none of my guns are Stainless and I definitely wouldn't be cleaning them right after a match, the next day or two if I am lucky. Also from the Barrie match they did a Pale Rider (BP) category and they were telling me by the end of the match those who did it, their lever rifles were just grinding the un spent powder. But I do agree that overly light loads should be discouraged. Personally I stick with the Winchester 45 Colt Cowboy Loads (brown box) and those are just fine I think.
 
I agree about not needing black powder just real loads...I hope CAS doesn't become the IPSC for an older crowd. I already see shooters getting gamey and trying everything to cut a second off their times.
Would these same games be in the real west?
Cowboy special loads of 45 acp for their 45 long colts.
 
Well as one that shoots SASS Wildbunch which uses the 1911 in 45 ACP, it is sometimes hard to find Lead ammo for the 45 ACP that is not "too" powerful as well. Wildbunch is very fun and challenging as well, uses a stock like as would have been issued in 1911 firearm, so a lot of the "modifications" that get done to them for other disciplines would be a no go, other that polishing parts and such.
 
I shoot CAS with .38 spl in my hand guns and .357 in my rifles at the max load allowed. I have seen shooters who's load was so light that you could follow the bullet from the muzzle to the target. I'm there to play cowboy, not win a new Ford F150.
 
I think you see what i mean....when I was there, some folks were asking for me to make the lightest .357 bullets possible, again i don't think this is what was originally meant for "Cowboy Action" and if not BP only then at least require orig. cals. and bullet weights. Let's have it so that the steel target must be knocked down and have it take a fairly heavy bullet to do it!
 
If you disallow .38 and .357 then you will lose half of the CAS members. The .38 was in vogue just after the US Civil War in the .36 cal cap and ball conversions. One cannot state that the .38 cal is not period correct. There are some who say that if it doesn't start with 4, then it doesn't count. Are you going to tell Wild Bill Hickok who carried a pair of .38's that he shoots wimp loads? Well, not to his face anyways.:)

Cheers!
 
Listen I have nothing against any caliber or gun, just the downloading to the point where you have no recoil and can shoot faster is just gamey to me...who am I...no one just my two cents. When I first started shooting cowboy over ten years ago in Ontario no one was using .38 except those due to age couldn't handle the big calibers. Now everyone who thinks of themselves as a gunfighter is trying to better their scores is using whimp .38 loads. Just in my eyes isn't the cowboy way...the sport has gone IPSC with speed as the first rule of shooting...again just not my way.
 
Cowboy Shootist said:
If you disallow .38 and .357 then you will lose half of the CAS members. The .38 was in vogue just after the US Civil War in the .36 cal cap and ball conversions. One cannot state that the .38 cal is not period correct. There are some who say that if it doesn't start with 4, then it doesn't count. Are you going to tell Wild Bill Hickok who carried a pair of .38's that he shoots wimp loads? Well, not to his face anyways.:)

Cheers!
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Sure if he was using the same loads being talked about here, sounds like they wouldn't even break the skin.:p
 
I'm certainly not a gamer, I load my .38 and .357 to max allowed using a 158 gr bullet. I have several third place certificates, only because there were only three shooters in that category however, my overall score is near the end of the pack.:) Like I said above, I'm there to play cowboy, not to win a new Ford F150. Sometimes I even forget to #### my shotgun when I stage it.

Cheers!
 
I gues you guys wouldn't want us using the 32-20 then. one of the original chamberings in original frontier guns. Holds about 15 gr of blk in a modern case and a 90gr pill, a real goget'r. And SASS legal.

In all seriousnes tho, I have watched a lot of .38 shooters get outshot by guys and gals using .44 or .45's. Pretty well all the winners in this sport are going to continue to win whatever guns they use---because they have practiced to get profficient at the sport at one time or another.

While I have a set of both .38's and 45's my wife and I predominantly use the .38's because of convenience and cost savings.

As for all knockdown targets, I would guess that less then 5% of the single bullet targets used in SASS in North America fit that description.
 
On the subject of big targets , our club just spent $10 thou. on new larger targets---not so the speed demons can go faster because they will go fast on the small targets as well.
They where made so that the less acomplished shooters could speed up and still hit the targets, giving them a better sence of acomplishment. And it worked. We studied the results from Canadians and discovered a distinct closing of the gap between the always fast winners ( no matter what size the targets) and the usual also rans.

It is a well documented fact that SASS clubs that have went to smaller targets to force pin-point acuracy have saw there participation dwindle ( some to the piont of shutting down because the old school managment wouldn't budge).
 
A few weeks ago I shot the Canadian Cowboy Championships in Rocky Mountain House and I must admit that some of the rounds hitting the targets are getting VERY hard to hear, especially for someone who is starting to develop hearing problems. Yet my wifes and my revolver rounds are loaded to 640 fps, hers in .38 & mine in .44 and nobody has a problem hearing them. As for shooting non traditional calibers, well it does get more shooters to the range and a lot of shooters these days don't have time to reload century plus old bottleneck calibers. Carbide dies are wonderful things when used in straight walled cases.

As for Black Powder, I have issues with it. I was at Ft Kusk a couple of years back when some gentleman using the "holy black" started 1/3 of the range on fire. Plus for those shooters who have respiratory issues, like myself sucking up the residue of fired black powder loads with already damaged lungs does leave a bit to be desired.

I must admit that the gamey crap is starting to catch up to CAS. At the match in Rocky I watched two shooters do the IPSC "shadow shooting" before actually competing in that stage. Frankly I found it embarrassing, it sort of takes the fun out of the match.
 
Garand said:
A few weeks ago I shot the Canadian Cowboy Championships in Rocky Mountain House and I must admit that some of the rounds hitting the targets are getting VERY hard to hear, especially for someone who is starting to develop hearing problems. Yet my wifes and my revolver rounds are loaded to 640 fps, hers in .38 & mine in .44 and nobody has a problem hearing them. As for shooting non traditional calibers, well it does get more shooters to the range and a lot of shooters these days don't have time to reload century plus old bottleneck calibers. Carbide dies are wonderful things when used in straight walled cases.

As for Black Powder, I have issues with it. I was at Ft Kusk a couple of years back when some gentleman using the "holy black" started 1/3 of the range on fire. Plus for those shooters who have respiratory issues, like myself sucking up the residue of fired black powder loads with already damaged lungs does leave a bit to be desired.

I must admit that the gamey crap is starting to catch up to CAS. At the match in Rocky I watched two shooters do the IPSC "shadow shooting" before actually competing in that stage. Frankly I found it embarrassing, it sort of takes the fun out of the match.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you and I were on the same posse.
 
i was at the saskatoon shoot as well they call me the quickspin kid and my fiance last chance lexi (shes the short one thats not ginger). we shoot 38's in our guns with the main reason originally being purely economical reasons as well as the availability of components. i have never chronied my rounds but believe them to be aproximately 800fps (according to speer 13). how fast would you consider mouse fart loads.
 
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