Sharon Multi-Gun Labour Day Match 2010
- Thread starter tacticalpriority
- Start date
I didn't even shoot the match....
O.K.., let me be the first to coment on this match.... and I even didn't shoot it
I already sent email to organizor apologizing for not staying...though, I'm sure I insulted him in the process, though not my intention...just wanted to give him friendly advise on set up... not to waste or dissapoint fellow shooters...I'm sure he hates by now...or by the end of this post...
Anyways... here's why I didn't waste my time to stay and shoot....
I get there and starting talking with one of the shooters already there and he gives me low down on the set up... and I thought he was yanking my chain .. and he insisted he was not....
the stage run down..
start prone shooting at mini clay targets at 120 yds....and no follow up shots permitted if you miss... yes...no follow ups...
.so, even though I was expecting something larger with "A" Zone or "C" zone or even no zones but atleast targets head shot size...so you're likely to hit somewhere.....I figure, o.k.. this is the "precison portion of match...so hey, thats precision and if I can't manage that at only 120 yds...then too bad for me... I gotta give it a go...and practise more next time....
then: after prone you get up and go to carbine and there are 3 or 4 barriers to shoot behind from either side and from each of those you shoot at one ipsc target (in middle - 1 shot virginia) then on both sides of that there are 2 of those mini clay targets to shoot, so 4 of them and 1 paper per section/barrier (all these at approx. 8 - 10 yds.) ....WTF .. mini clay targets to shoot at in whats suppose to be close quarters carbine ? ? ! !
and again... no follow up shots on misses....
i have a raised mount (3"raised) 1.25 - 4x scope....which will be shooting very low of point of aim ...and freestyle.... and I'm suppose to shoot 5"( or whatever size) clay target ... Yes, it's close, but I'll be hitting very low from zero and hard to gauge and I may miss by 1mm. and I can't follow up ? I watched one guy shoot and he only hit one out of 12 or 16 of them... and was told previous guy missed most of them too...
The shotgun portion is no follow up sots either... which i guess would of been fine with bird shot...
only pistol permitted follow ups if missed...
I mean, I was there to just have fun and put to use some new gear I got, put to use a new scope for my AR and have fun with my Glock 19, that I don't shoot so often....and always fun to blast my shotgun...
But, I do it to have fun...and this set up was just (for lack of a better word) stupid.... those clays were not far, but you're pretty much being forced into another precision shot with a gun that most would not have had it set up for...I believe most have carbines set up at 100 yds... as most close quarters targets are usually bigger...or at least 12" target zone or painted hard cover over portion of ipsc target..etc...(and an 1" or so drop or rise on closer targets is fine, cause you know to adjust for such a shot)... these shots are for quick acquisition ... tap tap and move one to next target....
It would have just been more fustrating than fun !!! If it was for free, than I'd shoot it for the hell of it and practise...but by my choice.... I'm not going to pay for just wasting ammo ... missing and maybe even gotten a few of them... but thats not the point...
I would of been o.k. to shoot those little clays with my pistola at that distance, if that was the case...
I didn't go with the intension or hopes of winning anything, trust me on that.. hahaha... but not to waste my ammo... it doesn't grow on trees...or grow out of my A*S....
I'm making point that none of us are applying to be on the special opts..of navy seals etc..I don't have problem if I have a miss or two....but if design is of such that you'll be missing half the F'n targets... there's something wrong with stage set up..? ?
I felt a little bad for not staying and wasting a slot... but then as i drove home with my girlfriend who was interested to see me shoot a multi gun as she has seen ipsc...wanted to video tape me...and I realized, if anything I should be upset for wasting my time driving there and to be let down by that...
YES, I DO APPRECIATE THE EFFORT ORGANIZORS put into match set up....
But am I wrong for at least expecting they put on a match that is somewhat realistic to what an average shooter, expert or novice shooter can come out and enjoy themselves..and with better rules, etc...? especially if they're going to spend their hard earned $$ ..
If your going to put on some weird stages.. at least tell people what to expect so they come out knowing such... I know you can't explain every part.. but something odd and not practical like shooting carbine at mini clays is kinda out of the norm...so i think... I haven't been to too many 3-4 gun matches... but never expected this.....one or two crazy shots is devilish and fun set up... not half the match...
I'm pretty sure most who shot that left fustrated/ disappointed ..... and thinking what the heck man ? I should have left with Stavros and gone for lunch....and just talked gun stuff.....
I've never complained about a match before since 1995. This is a first for me... and I hope the last...
Maybe it's just me...maybe cause I can't shoot straight, I'm a whiner ?
I know we all appreciate the volunteer time put into matches... but is it wrong to hold them accountable for at least doing a competant job of such ?
Cheers....
oh, I hope there's another 3 or 4 gun match before years end... I really want to shoot a normal one before seasons over....as i had to miss all other ones this year...
O.K.., let me be the first to coment on this match.... and I even didn't shoot it
I already sent email to organizor apologizing for not staying...though, I'm sure I insulted him in the process, though not my intention...just wanted to give him friendly advise on set up... not to waste or dissapoint fellow shooters...I'm sure he hates by now...or by the end of this post...
Anyways... here's why I didn't waste my time to stay and shoot....
I get there and starting talking with one of the shooters already there and he gives me low down on the set up... and I thought he was yanking my chain .. and he insisted he was not....
the stage run down..
start prone shooting at mini clay targets at 120 yds....and no follow up shots permitted if you miss... yes...no follow ups...
.so, even though I was expecting something larger with "A" Zone or "C" zone or even no zones but atleast targets head shot size...so you're likely to hit somewhere.....I figure, o.k.. this is the "precison portion of match...so hey, thats precision and if I can't manage that at only 120 yds...then too bad for me... I gotta give it a go...and practise more next time....
then: after prone you get up and go to carbine and there are 3 or 4 barriers to shoot behind from either side and from each of those you shoot at one ipsc target (in middle - 1 shot virginia) then on both sides of that there are 2 of those mini clay targets to shoot, so 4 of them and 1 paper per section/barrier (all these at approx. 8 - 10 yds.) ....WTF .. mini clay targets to shoot at in whats suppose to be close quarters carbine ? ? ! !
and again... no follow up shots on misses....
i have a raised mount (3"raised) 1.25 - 4x scope....which will be shooting very low of point of aim ...and freestyle.... and I'm suppose to shoot 5"( or whatever size) clay target ... Yes, it's close, but I'll be hitting very low from zero and hard to gauge and I may miss by 1mm. and I can't follow up ? I watched one guy shoot and he only hit one out of 12 or 16 of them... and was told previous guy missed most of them too...
The shotgun portion is no follow up sots either... which i guess would of been fine with bird shot...
only pistol permitted follow ups if missed...
I mean, I was there to just have fun and put to use some new gear I got, put to use a new scope for my AR and have fun with my Glock 19, that I don't shoot so often....and always fun to blast my shotgun...
But, I do it to have fun...and this set up was just (for lack of a better word) stupid.... those clays were not far, but you're pretty much being forced into another precision shot with a gun that most would not have had it set up for...I believe most have carbines set up at 100 yds... as most close quarters targets are usually bigger...or at least 12" target zone or painted hard cover over portion of ipsc target..etc...(and an 1" or so drop or rise on closer targets is fine, cause you know to adjust for such a shot)... these shots are for quick acquisition ... tap tap and move one to next target....
It would have just been more fustrating than fun !!! If it was for free, than I'd shoot it for the hell of it and practise...but by my choice.... I'm not going to pay for just wasting ammo ... missing and maybe even gotten a few of them... but thats not the point...
I would of been o.k. to shoot those little clays with my pistola at that distance, if that was the case...
I didn't go with the intension or hopes of winning anything, trust me on that.. hahaha... but not to waste my ammo... it doesn't grow on trees...or grow out of my A*S....
I'm making point that none of us are applying to be on the special opts..of navy seals etc..I don't have problem if I have a miss or two....but if design is of such that you'll be missing half the F'n targets... there's something wrong with stage set up..? ?
I felt a little bad for not staying and wasting a slot... but then as i drove home with my girlfriend who was interested to see me shoot a multi gun as she has seen ipsc...wanted to video tape me...and I realized, if anything I should be upset for wasting my time driving there and to be let down by that...
YES, I DO APPRECIATE THE EFFORT ORGANIZORS put into match set up....
But am I wrong for at least expecting they put on a match that is somewhat realistic to what an average shooter, expert or novice shooter can come out and enjoy themselves..and with better rules, etc...? especially if they're going to spend their hard earned $$ ..
If your going to put on some weird stages.. at least tell people what to expect so they come out knowing such... I know you can't explain every part.. but something odd and not practical like shooting carbine at mini clays is kinda out of the norm...so i think... I haven't been to too many 3-4 gun matches... but never expected this.....one or two crazy shots is devilish and fun set up... not half the match...
I'm pretty sure most who shot that left fustrated/ disappointed ..... and thinking what the heck man ? I should have left with Stavros and gone for lunch....and just talked gun stuff.....
I've never complained about a match before since 1995. This is a first for me... and I hope the last...
Maybe it's just me...maybe cause I can't shoot straight, I'm a whiner ?
I know we all appreciate the volunteer time put into matches... but is it wrong to hold them accountable for at least doing a competant job of such ?
Cheers....
oh, I hope there's another 3 or 4 gun match before years end... I really want to shoot a normal one before seasons over....as i had to miss all other ones this year...
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I shot this match today and found it fun and challenging.
I missed 3 of the clay birds from the barricades and that was because I rushed.
The clays started at about 10 yards, but by the time you got to the 5th station you were shooting at I'd say 60yrds.
Hosing down a stage with tonnes of lead can be fun, but this event challenged ones speed and marksmanship.
Yes it would have been nice to be able to follow up a few shots, but really, all that was needed was focus and all targets were easily engaged.
There were a number of guys that ran after me that only missed a couple as well.
Its too bad that this event didn't appeal to you.
Although I still think you should have tried the event.
I haven't heard of too many events being held where you get to use multiple guns in the same stage so any time I can do so I'm a happy guy.
And as you mentioned, thanks needs to go out to those that organized and set up the event.
no small undertaking considering he drilled holes in every clay bird so they could be hung in the target stands.
I missed 3 of the clay birds from the barricades and that was because I rushed.
The clays started at about 10 yards, but by the time you got to the 5th station you were shooting at I'd say 60yrds.
Hosing down a stage with tonnes of lead can be fun, but this event challenged ones speed and marksmanship.
Yes it would have been nice to be able to follow up a few shots, but really, all that was needed was focus and all targets were easily engaged.
There were a number of guys that ran after me that only missed a couple as well.
Its too bad that this event didn't appeal to you.
Although I still think you should have tried the event.
I haven't heard of too many events being held where you get to use multiple guns in the same stage so any time I can do so I'm a happy guy.
And as you mentioned, thanks needs to go out to those that organized and set up the event.
no small undertaking considering he drilled holes in every clay bird so they could be hung in the target stands.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
HUGE SNIP>>>>>>>>>>
oh, I hope there's another 3 or 4 gun match before years end... I really want to shoot a normal one before seasons over....as i had to miss all other ones this year...
Heck that is easy.............
SET ONE UP YOURSELF!!!!
Danimal247
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Yes the clays were tough - I got 1 of the 20 close ones and all the far ones.
My son got 15 of 20 close ones and 6 of 10 far ones!
Most who complained have never put a match on.
The only feedback I would say is that the match flyer could have let the people who dont come out to regular matches know that there was going to be all those clays - I knew what to expect.
Many many thanks to Dave for the match. My son and I really enjoyed it!
My son got 15 of 20 close ones and 6 of 10 far ones!
Most who complained have never put a match on.
The only feedback I would say is that the match flyer could have let the people who dont come out to regular matches know that there was going to be all those clays - I knew what to expect.
Many many thanks to Dave for the match. My son and I really enjoyed it!
Ideally, but then you'd know the course of fire and wouldn't be enjoyable as paying your $40. to someone else setting up a match.
Because one doesn't organize matches, doesn't mean they shouldn't get their money's worth attending another's match.
I don't know what this match cost to shoot, I wasn't there, a bit out of the way for me this time, or I would have showed, but the last match I attended was $40. You do realize that for many these days, 40 bucks plus the cost of ammo and travel is a bit much for a match you attend in good faith just to leave frustrated.
As much as I'd love to treat everyone to an interesting match myself, I much rather come out and enjoy someone else's set up. Isn't it well enough to show support by attending matches for a price that it has to be suggested that if you don't like it "set one up yourself"?
I think those who voice their concern do so in hopes it gets better next time. Not to degrade or discourage anyone from setting up future matches. I know that's how it is with me.
....as i had to miss all other ones this year...
You wouldn't have missed much, 'cept a bunch more clay targets.
Not everyone has the range facility to setup a three gun match or a carbine match or shotgun match only and the competitors have expectations.
however, setting up a match with stages that are less than desired regardless of the firearm does not exempt anyone from constructive opinions or more it is a challenge to do it right.
As someone that shot this match and many others and have also set up several matches. If you want the match of a life time in your eyes you should take the time and run a couple...It is lots of effort and work for little reward.
I also don't understand the interest in using a lot of clay birds but it isn't my match and I didn't have to set it up.
So I always thank the match director and volunteers and if you don't want to support them again...don't come back next year. They will figure it out if people want to shoot these types of matches.
You want to vent contact the match director privately and tell him of your feedback, I am sure they would appreciate it. But to slag a guy in a public forum...not my style.
I also don't understand the interest in using a lot of clay birds but it isn't my match and I didn't have to set it up.
So I always thank the match director and volunteers and if you don't want to support them again...don't come back next year. They will figure it out if people want to shoot these types of matches.
You want to vent contact the match director privately and tell him of your feedback, I am sure they would appreciate it. But to slag a guy in a public forum...not my style.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Yes maybe those of us setting up those courses of fire should heed your advice.......
And then we could all just shoot!
Wait.........I think that there is something wrong with that theory.
Did I say any such thing?
No didnt think I did.
In a word........NO.
Would it not be better to show those designers "how it is done"?
You wouldn't have missed much, 'cept a bunch more clay targets.
Hmmmm
The last EESA Shotgun match had birds, flying clays, tons of steel as well as slugs.
Next year you can look for much more buckshot.
Somehow I would suspect that if an individual were to contact a club that has the required facilities and offered to help organize a multigun match acting as Match Director etc that an arrangment could be made to have that done.
Sadly I did not make it out to this match.............as I was busy on the organization for the EESA Charity match. I really have to learn.
I guess that is my problem.............I know Colt45 is a good guy and all.......but this attack on a MD just stuck a nerve.
C Broad Arrow
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I want to thank Dave for the time and effort he spent setting up a fun and interesting match. I had fun. Was it different than others?...Yes thank God...And I enjoyed. The rain did not dampen my enthusiasm and like Lou and others said, I had fun. It was great to see a Lou's son shoot so well. And at the end of the day that is what it really is all about. Thanks Dave!
I can attest to the truthyness of what bersmith has said... He has slagged me to my face many times.
Often I end up crying, but he buys be a piece of pie and we move on... Towards the next time he decides to slag me.
Yeah, circular logic.
Weak as water. You could shoot other MD's matches.No, I did.
You may have a point. There's always more that can be done. I try to do my part in helping where needed regardless.
I have offered just that along with some of my time and ideas to the director of the last match I attended. I gladly extend this to other organizers in my area as well.
... and that, sounds like a good time. Sadly, I wasn't there to enjoy it. Next time.
- Location
- Peace River, Alberta
Someone tell me why we keep doing this to ourselves?
Greg
Greg
I don't mean to attack any one person with malice... anyone who knows me knows what I'm like...but that's what these forums are for, to give an opinion, vent, praise, complain, give suggestions, etc.... and knocking the match design/set up, obviously if I'm commenting on a match...people will know who set it up... so giving email on such comments, i did do... but also wanted to voice my opinion where there's a forum for doing just that...unfortunately the MD/stage designer taking the hit of my comments , comes with the territory.. ... I'm not venting for the purpose of attacking someone, but for the purpose of what it creates... poeple giving opinions, and discussion on such matters... etc...again... the purpose of these website...
though some may not believe me, I truly do appreciate efforts by all MD's helpers etc....as so many other match MD's can contest to....but I am entitled to my opinion of such matches...
So many matches with great set ups... ya, some matches have a really stupid stage here or there, but overall decent or better matchs....
I don't complain when's there's a steel in front of a no shoot at 25 yrds...or mini poppers at 35 yrds...cause thats good challenging....
Maybe in my venting...I may not of realized the way I'm explaining my opinion is coming across harsh...not meaning as such...
If this creates discussion of match design and what shooters want, maybe it'll help...
Sometime you may be typing a comment and then find yourself deleting it, not to offend or be more politically correct.... well.. we can't do that all the time....
The famous reply " you set one up " is just silly...
though some may not believe me, I truly do appreciate efforts by all MD's helpers etc....as so many other match MD's can contest to....but I am entitled to my opinion of such matches...
So many matches with great set ups... ya, some matches have a really stupid stage here or there, but overall decent or better matchs....
I don't complain when's there's a steel in front of a no shoot at 25 yrds...or mini poppers at 35 yrds...cause thats good challenging....
Maybe in my venting...I may not of realized the way I'm explaining my opinion is coming across harsh...not meaning as such...
If this creates discussion of match design and what shooters want, maybe it'll help...
Sometime you may be typing a comment and then find yourself deleting it, not to offend or be more politically correct.... well.. we can't do that all the time....
The famous reply " you set one up " is just silly...
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
It is the logical reply.
If you are not happy with the quality of matches.
Then the reply should be...........show us how it should be done.
BTW......I am still waiting for 667s August 2010 multigun match so you are not alone.
- Location
- Peace River, Alberta
Just Silly
I ended up deleting my comments three times prior to just posting above.
Sometimes it is just better to ask "why do we see so many clay pigeons at close range 3 gun matches?"
It isn't silly. What is silly is setting up matches over and over and over and asking why can't we get others to help out?
What else is silly are all these people that say they are coming to a match and then back out at the last minute, but that is a whole different question all together.
Greg
I ended up deleting my comments three times prior to just posting above.
Sometimes it is just better to ask "why do we see so many clay pigeons at close range 3 gun matches?"
It isn't silly. What is silly is setting up matches over and over and over and asking why can't we get others to help out?
What else is silly are all these people that say they are coming to a match and then back out at the last minute, but that is a whole different question all together.
Greg
