Flash Suppresor vs. Muzzle Brake
- Thread starter scooby_d
- Start date
Thanks for the suggestion, the SEI SOCOM 16 kit looks like exactly what I have pictured in my head. Couple questions though:
1)Does anyone know if it can be used on any length barrel? What is the overall length installed, and if it is easily removable (i.e. without a tool) will the length be measured by Mirimichi with the Brake/Hider on or off? The picture kind of makes it look like it might be designed just for a 16"
2)What exactly is the difference with "California compliant" vs a normal brake?
Also, does anyone know anything about the PWS FSC30 Muzzle Brake from Primary Weapon Systems? According to their propaganda it does act as both a hider and brake. Too good to be true?
h ttp://www.nokick.com/M14_M1A_Muzzle_Brake_Kit_p/m14-mbk.htm
Thanks
In California, generally speaking, any type of muzzle device that was originally designed, or advertised to suppress or redirect muzzle flash [i.e. a flash hider and or flash suppressor] is illegal to install on a semi automatic, center fire rifle that can accept a magazine or other type of ammunition feeding device that can accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition if that weapon has not been registered as an "Assault Weapon". That being said, generally speaking, in California a device that can be attached to the muzzle of a centerfire, semi automatice rifle that can accept a magazine, or ammunition feeding device that can accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition that was originally designed or advertised to redirect or suppress the forces of recoil and/or muzzle rise is legal to possess and/or install, so long as that device in no way suppresses or redirects muzzle flash.
In other words, in California, in regards to semi automatic, centerfire rifles:
Flash Hider/ Flash Suppressor = BAD
Recoil Brake/Muzzle Brake =GOOD [sorta]
Various M14 shorty muzzle treatments:
Instead of replacing the standard flash hider on the 22" barrel,
consider chopping the barrel and rethreading to 1/2" X28 TPI ....
which opens up the selection to the almost infinite muzzle devices available for the AR 15.
PS: with the recoil of the M14, a muzzle brake or compensator will provide much faster follow up shots. A Flash suppressor is mostly for the two way range, scoring tacticool points, and for optimising your 14 for Zombi reduction night missions.
Top: standard M14 flash hider on 22" barrel
Middle: standard M14 flash hider rethreaded to 1/2X28 TPI on 19" barrel
Bottom: standard M14 flash hider shortened to front sight base only, barrel rethreaded to 1/2X28 TPI with extra 1/4" of threads, YHM AR 15 Phantom combination muzzle brake / flash hider, bored to .30 cal clearances, mounted on chopped 19" barrel
Dlask / PWS clone AR 15 comp bored to .30 Cal clearances, mounted on 19" chopped barrel
NOTE: Dlask makes TWO versions of this comp, one in 1/2 X28 TPI with .223 sized bore, and one threaded at 14 MM, with a .30 cal bore. While the Norc barrels will usually have enough meat at the chop point to support a 14 mm thread, there is not enough meat to leave a decent sized shoulder at the end of the thread to take a crush washer. It would be nice if Joe made this comp with a .30 cal bore and 1/2" X 28 thread, so we didn't have to ream out the bore for our M14 shorties.
Dlask / MICELUK clone AR 15 comp bored to .30 Cal clearances, with a seperate custom made clamp on front sight base, mounted on chopped 19" barrel
The YHM combo design seems to provide slightly less recoil reduction than the Dlask/Miceluk, or Dlask/ PWS clones, but of the three, it looks the most TactiCOOL on the end of a shorty M14.
Instead of replacing the standard flash hider on the 22" barrel,
consider chopping the barrel and rethreading to 1/2" X28 TPI ....
which opens up the selection to the almost infinite muzzle devices available for the AR 15.
PS: with the recoil of the M14, a muzzle brake or compensator will provide much faster follow up shots. A Flash suppressor is mostly for the two way range, scoring tacticool points, and for optimising your 14 for Zombi reduction night missions.
Top: standard M14 flash hider on 22" barrel
Middle: standard M14 flash hider rethreaded to 1/2X28 TPI on 19" barrel
Bottom: standard M14 flash hider shortened to front sight base only, barrel rethreaded to 1/2X28 TPI with extra 1/4" of threads, YHM AR 15 Phantom combination muzzle brake / flash hider, bored to .30 cal clearances, mounted on chopped 19" barrel
Dlask / PWS clone AR 15 comp bored to .30 Cal clearances, mounted on 19" chopped barrel
NOTE: Dlask makes TWO versions of this comp, one in 1/2 X28 TPI with .223 sized bore, and one threaded at 14 MM, with a .30 cal bore. While the Norc barrels will usually have enough meat at the chop point to support a 14 mm thread, there is not enough meat to leave a decent sized shoulder at the end of the thread to take a crush washer. It would be nice if Joe made this comp with a .30 cal bore and 1/2" X 28 thread, so we didn't have to ream out the bore for our M14 shorties.
Dlask / MICELUK clone AR 15 comp bored to .30 Cal clearances, with a seperate custom made clamp on front sight base, mounted on chopped 19" barrel
The YHM combo design seems to provide slightly less recoil reduction than the Dlask/Miceluk, or Dlask/ PWS clones, but of the three, it looks the most TactiCOOL on the end of a shorty M14.
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Brownells sells a cheaper brake...The one by springfield armory...it is less than 100 bucks so I got one shipped a couple weeks ago...looks better in person than the pic .... but I was told it is not as good as the smith brake ...so ???...good news is you can reuse your front sight and if you dont cut the barrel shorter the norinco castle nut with it too.
there are options in the works by two canadian outfits, most likely still a couple or so months away...... but this issue IS being addressed as we speak.
that is all i'm permitted to say at the request of those manufacturers
if you are after a US sourced flash hider..... from my understanding, flash hiders are not permitted for export..... some muzzle brakes are. Although, Fabsports was selling the YHM and I know that a few other dealers were offering Troy muzzle devices. I am not sure if any of these dealers are still stocking these products.
I know of several folks that have had little issue with ordering the springfield Compensator from brownells..... but smith enterprise stuff...... unfortunately this has proven to be exceedingly difficult to aquire thier muzzle devices..... legally. Politcally, there ssems to be a real hate on for allowing canadians to access a whole lot of gravy parts that our American brothers have come accustom to enjoying.
On the bright side, we have the capabilities in Canada to make items of the same quality and effectiveness.... and our industry is starting to look at the M14/M1A a little more seriously now. I have been approached numerous times in the past year for input on projects currently under developement...... Patience kiddies...... I believe Canadian options will soon be availlable. Those companies will make thier own announcements when the time comes.
that is all i'm permitted to say at the request of those manufacturers
if you are after a US sourced flash hider..... from my understanding, flash hiders are not permitted for export..... some muzzle brakes are. Although, Fabsports was selling the YHM and I know that a few other dealers were offering Troy muzzle devices. I am not sure if any of these dealers are still stocking these products.
I know of several folks that have had little issue with ordering the springfield Compensator from brownells..... but smith enterprise stuff...... unfortunately this has proven to be exceedingly difficult to aquire thier muzzle devices..... legally. Politcally, there ssems to be a real hate on for allowing canadians to access a whole lot of gravy parts that our American brothers have come accustom to enjoying.
On the bright side, we have the capabilities in Canada to make items of the same quality and effectiveness.... and our industry is starting to look at the M14/M1A a little more seriously now. I have been approached numerous times in the past year for input on projects currently under developement...... Patience kiddies...... I believe Canadian options will soon be availlable. Those companies will make thier own announcements when the time comes.
OK fine,
I just got off the phone with Joe Dlask,
and finally, after years of bugging him to do this,
he will be making some test prototypes of my design for an M14 SHORTY compensator,
bored for .30 caliber, threaded 1/2 X 28 tpi,
AND
it will have a BUILT IN M 14 FRONT SIGHT BASE[/I] dovetailed to take a standard M14 front sight.
So there you have it ...
another M14 shorty compensator option in the works,
but this one puts the front sight out near the muzzle,
with a longer sight radius,
where it looks the best,
for the most "Tacticool " points.
[;{)
LAZ 1
I just got off the phone with Joe Dlask,
and finally, after years of bugging him to do this,
he will be making some test prototypes of my design for an M14 SHORTY compensator,
bored for .30 caliber, threaded 1/2 X 28 tpi,
AND
it will have a BUILT IN M 14 FRONT SIGHT BASE[/I] dovetailed to take a standard M14 front sight.
So there you have it ...
another M14 shorty compensator option in the works,
but this one puts the front sight out near the muzzle,
with a longer sight radius,
where it looks the best,
for the most "Tacticool " points.
[;{)
LAZ 1
Excellent news
...looking forward to seeing it...I went with the Springfield Armory version as it was under 100 bucks and I could get it shipped from Brownells....My local gunsmith is going to cut the barrel down and thread the inside of the break for me...hopefully finished in time for Hungry,s clinic in Barrie... I really like the idea of a front sight dovetail on the muzzle break so no gas lock sight will be required...
I guess no aprox cost yet ??
...looking forward to seeing it...I went with the Springfield Armory version as it was under 100 bucks and I could get it shipped from Brownells....My local gunsmith is going to cut the barrel down and thread the inside of the break for me...hopefully finished in time for Hungry,s clinic in Barrie... I really like the idea of a front sight dovetail on the muzzle break so no gas lock sight will be required...I guess no aprox cost yet ??
Hate to tell you but that has been already produced for year's by a company called Enterprise Arms.
This pic comes from Different's personal libarry;
http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/civilian/Entreprise_Arms_shorty_flash_hider_1
Also a company down south also uses this same idea for there can's;
http://308cans.com/m1amount.htm
So I would tell Dlask that there might be some pantent issues.
SATAIN,
both of those designs are quite a bit different than my concept.
For one thing,
the muzzles in both those pictures are standard three slot M14 style, and NOT turned DOWN to the usual shorty configuration of 1/2" X 28 TPI, same standard as all those AR 15 size comps. While the three slot design is available milled in to some after market SHORTY barrels, these barrels would usually be much more expensive than simply getting your existing M14 barrel chopped and re-threaded to the standard AR 15 thread spec.
The bottom picture is new to me, and quite interesting ....
basically a very neat concept to mount an adapter for REMOVABLE / REPLACEABLE muzzle devices , instead of something WITH A COMP OR FLASH HIDER permanently affixed.
GOOD IDEA!!!
Thanks for sharing those pics and adding to the general knowledge about available M 14 MUZZLE ACCESSORY options.
[;{)
Chalk ....
I've used the SA comp, and it looks great and works effectively on a 22" uncut, unmodified M14 barrel.
basically a replacement that looks like the top barrel in the top pic in Satains post above.
However, I personally like my short M14s with shorter compensators, otherwise it looks like the middle barrel in the top pic in Satains post above.
As you are finding out from your gunsmith, attaching one of these standard three key SA comps by rethreading the inside to the usual 1/2 X 28 TPI muzzle thread of a shorty, is not going to be a trivial event.
LAZ 1
both of those designs are quite a bit different than my concept.
For one thing,
the muzzles in both those pictures are standard three slot M14 style, and NOT turned DOWN to the usual shorty configuration of 1/2" X 28 TPI, same standard as all those AR 15 size comps. While the three slot design is available milled in to some after market SHORTY barrels, these barrels would usually be much more expensive than simply getting your existing M14 barrel chopped and re-threaded to the standard AR 15 thread spec.
The bottom picture is new to me, and quite interesting ....
basically a very neat concept to mount an adapter for REMOVABLE / REPLACEABLE muzzle devices , instead of something WITH A COMP OR FLASH HIDER permanently affixed.
GOOD IDEA!!!
Thanks for sharing those pics and adding to the general knowledge about available M 14 MUZZLE ACCESSORY options.
[;{)
Chalk ....
I've used the SA comp, and it looks great and works effectively on a 22" uncut, unmodified M14 barrel.
basically a replacement that looks like the top barrel in the top pic in Satains post above.
However, I personally like my short M14s with shorter compensators, otherwise it looks like the middle barrel in the top pic in Satains post above.
As you are finding out from your gunsmith, attaching one of these standard three key SA comps by rethreading the inside to the usual 1/2 X 28 TPI muzzle thread of a shorty, is not going to be a trivial event.
LAZ 1
NEA,
good to see even more options for M14 muzzle accessories soon to be available.
Have you given any thought to offering your M 14 specific compensators in the AR 15 standard 1/2" X 28 TPI attachment , as well as offering the NORC three spline and barrel nut system?
There are a LOT of M 14 shorties out there already cut and modified to that 1/2" X 28 TPI thread ...
it has become the defacto standard for M 14 shorty muzzle attachments.
Personally, I would prefer the larger 14 mm X 1 [ CZ standard ] threading here, but unfortunately, while most NORC barrels have enough OD at the common 18 3/4" cut off point here to use a 14M thread, this leaves a bit too small a shoulder for a crush washer, so some other method of locking the threads and indexing the comp would be required.
Good luck with your new M14 accessory offerings,
LAZ 1
[;{)
good to see even more options for M14 muzzle accessories soon to be available.
Have you given any thought to offering your M 14 specific compensators in the AR 15 standard 1/2" X 28 TPI attachment , as well as offering the NORC three spline and barrel nut system?
There are a LOT of M 14 shorties out there already cut and modified to that 1/2" X 28 TPI thread ...
it has become the defacto standard for M 14 shorty muzzle attachments.
Personally, I would prefer the larger 14 mm X 1 [ CZ standard ] threading here, but unfortunately, while most NORC barrels have enough OD at the common 18 3/4" cut off point here to use a 14M thread, this leaves a bit too small a shoulder for a crush washer, so some other method of locking the threads and indexing the comp would be required.
Good luck with your new M14 accessory offerings,
LAZ 1
[;{)
North Eastern Arms
Manufacturer-Business Member
two varients coming out. One is threaded for M14x1- VZ brakes and the other 1/2"x28. It will house our new tritium front sight.
trigger'06
CGN Regular
- Location
- Abbotsford B.C.
I can confirm the recoil reduction of the 3 chamber Dlask comp. Very nice, I have one on my shorty with a Bit's gas block front sight base. Combo is not sorted out to my satisfaction yet, but will work excellent. I like the possibilities of this new piece.
Chalk ....
I've used the SA comp, and it looks great and works effectively on a 22" uncut, unmodified M14 barrel.
basically a replacement that looks like the top barrel in the top pic in Satains post above.
However, I personally like my short M14s with shorter compensators, otherwise it looks like the middle barrel in the top pic in Satains post above.
As you are finding out from your gunsmith, attaching one of these standard three key SA comps by rethreading the inside to the usual 1/2 X 28 TPI muzzle thread of a shorty, is not going to be a trivial event.
LAZ 1
[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info Laz.....I liked the look of the pics of the front sight set up you provided.......If I didnt already purchase the Springfield version I would be waiting for your model to come on the market...
I am getting Jeff Smith at valleygunsmith to do the barrel chop and muzzle break threading for me at the end of the month...I brought it in to him a few weeks ago and he only seemed concerned about how hard the metal is on the break as it is hard on the equipment....Hopefully this is not to much of a pain in the butt for him....I will post some pics and more info after the work is done on it.
I read on misanthropists post where I first saw this method used on a stock flash hider that he had a set screw installed on the bottom of the flash hider.....do you feel that this is mandatory to ensure the break dosn't move ?....I will be using a crush washer as well to have the front sight index properly and I assume a taller front sight will be required as well ?
Thanks again
I've used the SA comp, and it looks great and works effectively on a 22" uncut, unmodified M14 barrel.
basically a replacement that looks like the top barrel in the top pic in Satains post above.
However, I personally like my short M14s with shorter compensators, otherwise it looks like the middle barrel in the top pic in Satains post above.
As you are finding out from your gunsmith, attaching one of these standard three key SA comps by rethreading the inside to the usual 1/2 X 28 TPI muzzle thread of a shorty, is not going to be a trivial event.
LAZ 1
[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info Laz.....I liked the look of the pics of the front sight set up you provided.......If I didnt already purchase the Springfield version I would be waiting for your model to come on the market...
I am getting Jeff Smith at valleygunsmith to do the barrel chop and muzzle break threading for me at the end of the month...I brought it in to him a few weeks ago and he only seemed concerned about how hard the metal is on the break as it is hard on the equipment....Hopefully this is not to much of a pain in the butt for him....I will post some pics and more info after the work is done on it.
I read on misanthropists post where I first saw this method used on a stock flash hider that he had a set screw installed on the bottom of the flash hider.....do you feel that this is mandatory to ensure the break dosn't move ?....I will be using a crush washer as well to have the front sight index properly and I assume a taller front sight will be required as well ?
Thanks again
Chalk,
I've seen SOME of the NORC front sight bases smoke and heard them SCREAM while attempting to do the internal 1/2" X 28 TPI threads. These were definitely much too hard, and tap breakaqge is one good reason why Dlask stopped doing this job.
I have not tested the SA M14 comp for hardness, so have no opinion on these.
Good luck with your M 14 chop job .... I'm sure Jeff will do it right .... but he might want to have a spare 1/2" X 28 tap on hand ... [;{)
I've seen SOME of the NORC front sight bases smoke and heard them SCREAM while attempting to do the internal 1/2" X 28 TPI threads. These were definitely much too hard, and tap breakaqge is one good reason why Dlask stopped doing this job.
I have not tested the SA M14 comp for hardness, so have no opinion on these.
Good luck with your M 14 chop job .... I'm sure Jeff will do it right .... but he might want to have a spare 1/2" X 28 tap on hand ... [;{)
NEA,
TRITIUM IS NICE!!!!
[;{)
It sure would be nice if the 14 MM X 1 thread became a new standard for M14 shorty muzzle accessories. I've never tried a long term torture test using just loctite to index and retain a compensator on an M14 .... just with the flash hiders, which are not subject to as much force trying to rip them off.
Do you think the 14 mm X1 thread would work on the small diameter Cinese M14 barrels WITH OUT a crush washer and shoulder for the crush washer to bear on??
thanks
LAZ 1
[;{)
TRITIUM IS NICE!!!!
[;{)
It sure would be nice if the 14 MM X 1 thread became a new standard for M14 shorty muzzle accessories. I've never tried a long term torture test using just loctite to index and retain a compensator on an M14 .... just with the flash hiders, which are not subject to as much force trying to rip them off.
Do you think the 14 mm X1 thread would work on the small diameter Cinese M14 barrels WITH OUT a crush washer and shoulder for the crush washer to bear on??
thanks
LAZ 1
[;{)
