could I build a flintlock handgun then register it.

[FishHog]

My dad use to build muzzleloaders.

Going through his shop, I pretty much have enough pieces to build a flintlock handgun. Would need to do some machining and purchase a breech plug, but could I legally do that an then register it as a restricted?

I do currently have restricted guns, so I'm not the issue, I just wondered if it would be possible. Or could I register an unbuild firearm first then build it?

Or is that just not possible at all? If not, I guess I'll get a barrel and build a long gun, but I've always wanted a flintlock handgun.

Thanks,

FishHog

 

[Dave_F]

Have fun

 

[northof58]

Flintlock long guns do not need to be registered, but flintlock handguns do have to be registered.

 

[mooncoon]

I would suggest registering before you drill the touchhole or drill and install a vent liner. On the broader picture, you will have to phone up the CFC and have it verified first. At that point it will be verified as "home made". You are allowed to make guns for yourself without a manufacturing license but not for sale (which requires the license). However if at some point in the future, you decide you no longer want the gun, you can sell it

cheers mooncoon

 

[FishHog]

and here I was totally expecting a no freakin' way.
good news for once.

thanks very much for the info.

FishHog

 

[mooncoon]

In re reading my post, I should clarify a bit. You build the gun but don't drill the touch hole then have it verified and register it then finish that last 10% to make it functional

cheers mooncoon

 

[dingus]

I would suggest registering before you drill the touchhole or drill and install a vent liner. On the broader picture, you will have to phone up the CFC and have it verified first. At that point it will be verified as "home made". You are allowed to make guns for yourself without a manufacturing license but not for sale (which requires the license). However if at some point in the future, you decide you no longer want the gun, you can sell it

cheers mooncoon

Really ? Ok now you got me thinking
I have a Brand new 5 Shot 45 70 Revolver Cylinder from Magnum research its modern Stainless steel i wanted to build a revolveing Carbine with a folding stock with pistol grip and a couple barrels that interchange.
so once i get close to getting it ready to shoot or the receiver made then i phone CFC and register it as a Revolving rifle carbine ?

Whats the Min OAL i can build it ?

More info on this would be great.

 

[PAINTBALL GUY 3]

You are allowed to make guns for yourself without a manufacturing license but not for sale (which requires the license). However if at some point in the future, you decide you no longer want the gun, you can sell it.

cheers mooncoon

I would like to know more about this. If a guy can't build a gun (say a long gun) to sell with out a gunsmith license, how can he sell it later on?

Thanks.

Ti

 

[burnt_servo]

I would like to know more about this. If a guy can't build a gun (say a long gun) to sell with out a gunsmith license, how can he sell it later on?

Thanks.

Ti

it is not a finished gun until the touch hole is drilled out ..... all you are really selling a a 95% finished pile of parts that will still need to be registered when the touch hole is drilled out , thus making it a functioning firearm

 

[762mm]

Stupid question... but... at which point exactly does a flintlock "pistol" become a flintlock "rifle" and vice-versa? Does the 16" non-restricted barrel length rule apply to antiques as well?

Then again, there are some non-restricteds kicking around with barrels shorter than 16", like the shotguns that were advertised by various site sponsors a while back (I forget which make/model they were, but barrels were approx 12" or even less... made for "close encounters", basically). Apparently if the barrel was manufacturer made, they only relied on OAL of the gun to determine class (I think). Man, this is confusing sometimes... but I guess this is what happens when clueless liberal politicians try to run our lives, eh?

 

[mooncoon]

I would like to know more about this. If a guy can't build a gun (say a long gun) to sell with out a gunsmith license, how can he sell it later on?

It is not a gunsmithing license but a gun manufacturing license that you require to build even one gun to sell. Several years ago I was told by the CFC that it was $1000 per year for the license but they also said that the gunsmithing license was $250 per year. I am pretty sure that the price of the gunsmithing license is actually for 5 years and that the cost varies depending on the type of guns that you work on. The manu license may also be for a longer time period and vary in price.

While you require the license to build for sale, if you have built for your own use and presumably used the gun for a while, you are now selling a second hand personal gun as opposed to selling a gun you manufactured specifically to sell. Needless to say how long you have to own the gun before you sell it does not appear to be legislated and I would think it wise not to ask. I am sure the provincial CFO would come up with a policy that we would not like.

cheers mooncoon

 

[mooncoon]

Really ?
so once i get close to getting it ready to shoot or the receiver made then i phone CFC and register it as a Revolving rifle carbine ?

Whats the Min OAL i can build it ?

An issue that I suspect is not defined in law and governed by personal opinion of the person you are dealing with. I would think to cover your bum, it would be prudent to register the frame when it approached the point where you could start putting pieces into it. In other words if a person could take your rough finished frame and install a barrel, cylinder etc and make it shoot, then it is close enough to be registered as a frame only.

I also think that you need to make the framing of the stock an integral part of the frame so that is clearly intended to be shot with two hands and so that it cannot simply be sawn off and left with a pistol gripped receiver. In other words if your frame had a straight stock, the RCMP would be on shaky grounds to rule that it was simply a pistol with a rifle stock added on.

On the overall length, if you do not have a manufacturing license, I would think that you would have to have a barrel over 18 or 18.5" as well as the minimum 26". If you paid the $1000 for the license, presumably you could use any barrel as long as the total length was over 26" similar to the way that Dlask is able to make and sell short shotgun barrels (I think). On the other hand, the shorter the barrel, the more reluctant the RCMP might be to declare a revolver to be a long arm. I think (don't know) that modern revolving carbines are considered restricted because their pistol grips allow them to be shot single handed or quickly altered into hand guns

cheers mooncoon

 

[mooncoon]

Stupid question... but... at which point exactly does a flintlock "pistol" become a flintlock "rifle" and vice-versa? Does the 16" non-restricted barrel length rule apply to antiques as well?

The definition of a handgun is that it is designed to be shot with one hand. In the case of original guns it does not matter because pre 1898 muzzle loaders are all antiques and do not need to be registered and therefore do not need to be categorized.

In the case of a modern made long arm, I think in most cases while you might be able to make your point in court, you do not want to have to debate the issue there. You would be far wiser to keep your barrel over 18.5" and save yourself a lot of explaining and a lot of grief. The one exception I might consider would be a blunderbuss simply because historically they were fairly short barreled

Just my thoughts anyhow

cheers mooncoon

 

[dingus]

An issue that I suspect is not defined in law and governed by personal opinion of the person you are dealing with. I would think to cover your bum, it would be prudent to register the frame when it approached the point where you could start putting pieces into it. In other words if a person could take your rough finished frame and install a barrel, cylinder etc and make it shoot, then it is close enough to be registered as a frame only.

I also think that you need to make the framing of the stock an integral part of the frame so that is clearly intended to be shot with two hands and so that it cannot simply be sawn off and left with a pistol gripped receiver. In other words if your frame had a straight stock, the RCMP would be on shaky grounds to rule that it was simply a pistol with a rifle stock added on.

On the overall length, if you do not have a manufacturing license, I would think that you would have to have a barrel over 18 or 18.5" as well as the minimum 26". If you paid the $1000 for the license, presumably you could use any barrel as long as the total length was over 26" similar to the way that Dlask is able to make and sell short shotgun barrels (I think). On the other hand, the shorter the barrel, the more reluctant the RCMP might be to declare a revolver to be a long arm. I think (don't know) that modern revolving carbines are considered restricted because their pistol grips allow them to be shot single handed or quickly altered into hand guns

cheers mooncoon

So the idea would be to have the Tangs that hold the stock on attached to the receiver (like a remy rolling block action) going strait back?
Where as the rolling block pistol the tangs bend down into the pistol grip.

I was thinking of makeing one like the 1858 Uberti Remy copy revolveing Carbine.
Only my action would be 2 inch longer
Then i could buy the carbine stock parts from the USA pre made and then attach them with screws to my Receiver hard to argue its not a carbine once the stocks attached. only part thats diffrent is the tang on the receiver goes strait back. I dont want it to ever be a handgun just a handy 45 70 5 shot carbine.
Uberti carbines are non restricted i think Doug not Restricted. If you look at them theres a Tang on the top that goes strait back like a rolling block rifle action.
So saying it can have a pistol grip attached easy is not really and arguement they can make.
The trigger gard is the part thats just screwed on.
To make a pistol one would need to heat and bend that Tang down frist.
So im thinking id be ok. Maby lol

 

[mooncoon]

So the idea would be to have the Tangs that hold the stock on attached to the receiver (like a remy rolling block action) going strait back?

Uberti carbines are non restricted i think Doug not Restricted. If you look at them theres a Tang on the top that goes strait back like a rolling block rifle action.
So saying it can have a pistol grip attached easy is not really and arguement they can make.

My thought is that if the stock is like a rolling block rifle or an english shotgun, the frame could not be said to be easily converted to a rifle. You would have to completely reform the straps that surround and support the pistol butt. It would clearly not be designed to be shot with one hand.

My idea is that if the carbine had a pistol like pistol grip framed in, even if tangs for a butt stock were continuous with that framing, the police could say that all you have to do is to cut the rifle tangs off and you have an instant pistol. With the straight stock that is not true. Police philosophy often seems to feel that home gunsmithing (in the sense of creating pistols) is limited to sawing off and or installing store bought parts. In this case that philosophy would say that the revolving rifle could not be easily converted to a pistol.

cheers mooncoon

 

[dingus]

Ok so Nix the pistol grip just go with a strait carbine type stock and im good to go.
And a 18 + inch barrel.
Im thinking makeing the cylinder swing out for loading to like them peiper revolveing rifles.
Be and intresting project.

 

[Aries-]

a modern flintlock handgun MUST be registered when it is built.

if you have all the parts to make one, build it, call the cfc and register it, make sure if it is a certain model you have the name handy as they will ask you so they can find an FRT# for it. (make one in a common caliber for that model, and barrel length).

as for what makes a restricted, if it is designed to be shot with 1 hand and only one hand it is a pistol and restricted. (the uberty buntline has an 18.5" bbl and is restricted)
a rifle must be designed to be shot at the shoulder, and have a overall length of 27" / or barrel longer than 18.5"

 

[QM 8687]

Gunsmith licence. Never heard of it. Did this come out with bill C301?

 

[mooncoon]

Gunsmith licence. Never heard of it. Did this come out with bill C301?

Unless I am mistaken, gunsmithing licenses have been around for some time prior to 1995. I think the cost of them increased dramatically with bill C68. It is my impression that they may have cost $10 prior to that time

cheers mooncoon

 

[Ol' Flinter]

Regarding Fishhog's original question: Mooncoon and Aries both have it correct, based on my experience. I recently built a 12" Kentucky pistol - 50 cal percussion but it would not matter as regards registration because it is not antique and must be registered once it is capable of being fired. When I phoned, the CFC wanted to know if it was a"Kit" and explained that it was not a kit but built from parts just like a kit would be. They wanted to know who manufactured the most significant part, which we both agreed was the barrel so I directed them to the Green Mtn website and they confirmed that G-M actually makes 12" 50 cal octagon barrels and were happy with that. They then provided the reference info I needed and I went online and did the registration process. Having said this, it was more than 2 months ago and I still haven't rec'd the paperwork. The previous time was a "home made" percussion rifle and the paperwork took 4 months so I am not really surprised at this delay. Regarding "manufacturing", if you buy the lock and/or barrel rather than making them yourself and assemble the parts for a couple of guns for yourself or a friend then I don't see the CFC getting wrapped around the axle about your new gun.... but 40 or 50 in one year might attract attention.
Good luck