BAL Lever Problem - Help needed

[Bolivar]

I think I had a EUREKA moment. Pictures are worth a thousand words right?

First to address some questions/points by helpful nutters

I believe with both mag types I am getting good contact with the bolt release by the mag followers. The bolt locks back reliably when operating the charging handle by hand.

Top view with Pmag

Top view with LAR

There is some definite movement in the bolt latch as illustrated here

EUREKA. The lever is contacting the side of the receiver when pushed up by the mag follower

Here is the bolt catch with the BAD removed. Note that the pretty much the full depth of the lug is held by the catch

Now with the BAD lever in place, clearly the bolt catch is not as high on the bolt

I actually measured the height of the catch with the upper off. Without the BAD lever the catch raises 0.40 inches above the receiver. With the BAD lever, only 0.357 inches.

Based on this measurement and the pictures I am concluding that the lever is interfering with the full movement of the catch and during the more violent action of the BCG cycling.

When fired, the bolt is either bouncing over the catch because it is moving so fast when driven by the spring;

or the lever is bouncing against the receiver and causing the catch bounce too.

The latter would explain why the bolt locked back for the first round/mag I tried and not the rest. The bounce would be a bit random.

Now the question is, how do I solve it

1) Bend the lever so it is not hitting the receiver?
2) Grind the receiver so it is not touching the lever
3) Try to find a bolt catch that is taller or has a paddle that sits further away from the receiver to give more clearance for the lever?

Not sure if 3) is even possible
With 1) I am afraid of breaking the lever
I am almost temped by 2) since it is only a Norc, the relief would be in a small area and I think this part of the receiver (corner above the trigger) takes little stress but
.........I don't want my gun to blow up or my #### to fall off

Any thoughts or helpful suggestions? I have a blow torch and a dremel just itching to let rip.

 

[blaxsun]

Any thoughts or helpful suggestions? I have a blow torch and a dremel just itching to let rip.

Yes, #1 - bend the lever to give you the extra play so that it doesn't come into contact with the receiver. I once got a Magpul BAD that was seriously warped - so if you're gentle you should be able to get the desired angle and not pooch it.

Or... #4 - get a different AR, and your problems (past, present and future) are solved. But I know you like a challenge, so go with #1.

 

[Bolivar]

Or... #4 - get a different AR, and your problems (past, present and future) are solved. But I know you like a challenge, so go with #1.

My first instinct is a raised middle finger

 

[blaxsun]

My first instinct is a raised middle finger

I don't think that's going to do the trick for you, but if you try inserting it in a seldom-used orifice you may get the desired result...!

 

[Bolivar]

I don't think that's going to do the trick for you, but if you try inserting it in a seldom-used orifice you may get the desired result...!

This going nowhere good. Okay you win.

Serious question here, since I am such an AR newbie I don't really know enough to tell. From the pics I posted would you say that the Norc receiver varies from many others at the point where the lever is hitting, or is the lever kinda bent?

 

[jmiddy]

#1 bend it like Beckham

 

[blaxsun]

Serious question here, since I am such an AR newbie I don't really know enough to tell. From the pics I posted would you say that the Norc receiver varies from many others at the point where the lever is hitting, or is the lever kinda bent?

I'll have to take a look at one of my lowers, but I believe it's either the way the receiver is designed or the bolt release isn't sticking far enough out. That BAL worked flawlessly on my HK, just FYI.

 

[jmiddy]

The other issue is spring tension on mags in regards to riveted vs non riveted mags.

Personally I love my pmags but the spring tension is pretty weak and i think its from the rivet taking some tension off of the follower. Dont believe me push down on a 5 rd Pmag then push down on a RRA 10rd'r.

 

[blaxsun]

The other issue is spring tension on mags in regards to riveted vs non riveted mags.

Personally I love my pmags but the spring tension is pretty weak and i think its from the rivet taking some tension off of the follower. Dont believe me push down on a 5 rd Pmag then push down on a RRA 10rd'r.

There also the previously-mentioned PMAG follower issue that happens with some norcs.

 

[acrashb]

Now with the BAD lever in place, clearly the bolt catch is not as high on the bolt[...]Without the BAD lever the catch raises 0.40 inches above the receiver. With the BAD lever, only 0.357 inches.
[...]
1) Bend the lever so it is not hitting the receiver?
2) Grind the receiver so it is not touching the lever
3) Try to find a bolt catch that is taller or has a paddle that sits further away from the receiver to give more clearance for the lever?
[...]
Any thoughts or helpful suggestions? I have a blow torch and a dremel just itching to let rip.

Thought: dump the BAD clone (what you have is a B.A.L. from Tactical Link) and get an actual MagPul B.A.D ( http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=29341/avs|Manufacturer_1=MAGPUL/Product/AR_15_M16_B_A_D__LEVER_trade_ ). That should fit just fine.

Failing that... don't touch the receiver. Bend the lever, with it off of the bolt catch. If you try to bend it while still on the catch, you may snap the paddle off.

 

[jmiddy]

On a side note and off topic here is the stripped upper i got in the mail today, damn is it nice. But my hack job on my bolt catch is showing too!!

 

[blaxsun]

Thought: dump the BAD clone (what you have is a B.A.L. from Tactical Link) and get an actual MagPul B.A.D ( http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=29341/avs|Manufacturer_1=MAGPUL/Product/AR_15_M16_B_A_D__LEVER_trade_ ). That should fit just fine.

The same problem has been reported with both, so this won't necessarily solve it. I agree with bending the BAL separately after uninstalling.

 

[Bolivar]

I'll have to take a look at one of my lowers, but I believe it's either the way the receiver is designed or the bolt release isn't sticking far enough out. That BAL worked flawlessly on my HK, just FYI.

Never occurred to me that there was any problem with the BAL that you wouldn't have told me about on purchase. No worries.

Thought: dump the BAD clone (what you have is a B.A.L. from Tactical Link) and get an actual MagPul B.A.D ( http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=29341/avs|Manufacturer_1=MAGPUL/Product/AR_15_M16_B_A_D__LEVER_trade_ ). That should fit just fine.

Point about the BAD vs BAL terminology noted. Whoops. Sort of like calling all facial tissues Kleenex. Title of thread fix to avoid future confusion.

As for the BAD vs the BAL I had heard that there was a risk of either not working with my Nork. I actually prefer the mounting solution for the BAL with the three screws vs the one for the BAD so I opted for that (plus Blaxsun sold it to me for an attractive price)

 

[Bolivar]

The same problem has been reported with both, so this won't necessarily solve it. I agree with bending the BAL separately after uninstalling.

I was wondering if anybody has or can post pics of a Magpul BAD mounted on a Norc, or both the BAD and BAL mounted on the same receiver (similar to my posted pics) showing if one or the other provides more clearance from the receiver. It might be good to investigate since the design of the lever for the BAD might do the trick for me rather then bending.

Not that I don't like to shape metal with fire

 

[blaxsun]

As for the BAD vs the BAL I had heard that there was a risk of either not working with my Nork. I actually prefer the mounting solution for the BAL with the three screws vs the one for the BAD so I opted for that (plus Blaxsun sold it to me for an attractive price)

On some lower receivers (POF, for example) the BAD won't work as it comes into contact with a raised guard for the bolt release - hence where the BAL will work instead.

 

[SpoonMan]

I got the B.A.D installed on my Norc M4 since last October 2010. And I had no issues at all. The only issues I had was the P-Mags (30rounds) that would not keep the bolt open after firing the last round. Blaxsun sent me some 20 rounds P-Mags and some E-Mags and my problems were gone!

I'll take more pics of my B.A.D. tonight with a closer look if you whant me to.

SM

 

[Bolivar]

I got the B.A.D installed on my Norc M4 since last October 2010. And I had no issues at all. The only issues I had was the P-Mags (30rounds) that would not keep the bolt open after firing the last round. Blaxsun sent me some 20 rounds P-Mags and some E-Mags and my problems were gone!

I'll take more pics of my B.A.D. tonight with a closer look if you whant me to.

SM

Pics showing clearance from the lever to receiver when the bolt is locked would be a big help.

Given that my bolt catch isn't extending as high with the BAL in place I have to logically assume this is the problem, until testing proves otherwise. If I can this week I will pop to the club and try the lever with my LAR mags. They do have more spring pressure given the shorter mag length.

 

[Bolivar]

The other issue is spring tension on mags in regards to riveted vs non riveted mags.

Personally I love my pmags but the spring tension is pretty weak and i think its from the rivet taking some tension off of the follower. Dont believe me push down on a 5 rd Pmag then push down on a RRA 10rd'r.

I'm not saying your wrong but can't see how the rivet would affect the spring tension. It just prevents the follower from going down into the mag. My LAR's do have more spring tension than the Pmag but that is likely due to the shorter overall spring length.

The Pmag spring has to expand and compress enough to hold 30 rounds, the LAR only 10. So in the Pmag the 5 rounds compresses the spring 5/30's of it's travel. In the LAR 5/10's. As a ratio of capacity, the LAR's get way more compressed.

This is of course assuming that both mags use spring with similar quality and spring rate. I could be completely wrong about that.

 

[CarbineOne]

The Pmag spring has to expand and compress enough to hold 30 rounds, the LAR only 10. So in the Pmag the 5 rounds compresses the spring 5/30's of it's travel. In the LAR 5/10's. As a ratio of capacity, the LAR's get way more compressed.

This is of course assuming that both mags use spring with similar quality and spring rate. I could be completely wrong about that.

Correct. The LAR-15 magazines are just 30 rounders, chopped off.

 

[jmiddy]

I'm not saying your wrong but can't see how the rivet would affect the spring tension. It just prevents the follower from going down into the mag. My LAR's do have more spring tension than the Pmag but that is likely due to the shorter overall spring length.

The Pmag spring has to expand and compress enough to hold 30 rounds, the LAR only 10. So in the Pmag the 5 rounds compresses the spring 5/30's of it's travel. In the LAR 5/10's. As a ratio of capacity, the LAR's get way more compressed.

This is of course assuming that both mags use spring with similar quality and spring rate. I could be completely wrong about that.

Take your baseplate off your pmag and see when you try to remove the spring and follower if the spring binds at all on the rivet. If it does in yours then the rivet is taking up some of the springs tension. I know for a fact they do in mine.

This is just a minor problem but still is a problem.

My lower has no issues with the bolt catch anymore but the BAD i have does rub somewhat on my KNS pin bar i have installed, just a little bit. This does not affect locking back for me but does affect the bolt slipping sometimes do to the lower being bumped.