I have been reloading 150 grain SST in my 308W. I have found they work satisfactory shooting on the bench or in fields or recent cut overs for deer. Last fall we had snow early and the deer moved into the thick stuff. I need to add a bullet to my arsenal for next time this happens. I was thinking of a 150g round nose or going to 180g round nose and slowing it down. Maybe I should be looking at 200g bullet? Does the shape of bullet or its' velocity make a difference in the brush? Any studies done on bullet deflection? Shots would be lest than 75 yards. What is everyone else using for similar situations?
bullet selection for deer in thick brush
- Thread starter mveniot
- Start date
I don't think there is any empirical evidence that shows a different size, shape or weight of common hunting rounds that suggests one type or style is better than any other! All I have ever heard or read has been complete conjecture. Bottom line in my mind is, get a clear shot, and don't worry about it, or use BuckShot in tight densely wooded or brushy areas.
Flame Suit zipped up tight!!!!!!!
Flame Suit zipped up tight!!!!!!!
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
ALL of the empirical testing that I've seen, and ALL of the professional shooting editors and gun writers that I've read, have said the same thing. ALL bullets suck at shooting through brush. Period. Don't try shooting twigs and then expect your bullet to find its mark with any degree of precision. They have found that some bullets do marginally better than others, but they all suck. RN bullets are some of the worst because they have more frontal area to catch on twigs and branches. Pointy bullets did as well as any. I'd either use a heavy, slow bullet, such as a 500gr from a .45-70, or else just stick with your 150gr SST. There's no sense switching bullets and loads all the time. If you were shooting a bullet over 3000fps at close range I would suggest moving to the 150gr TTSX, but at 2800-2900fps MV the SST should do fine.
I would invest my time and energy trying to not hit brush, rather than trying to find a bullet that will reliably penetrate brush and maintain a straight course. Your time would be better invested practicing from field positions at the shooting range so that you can thread the needle when it comes time to hit a buck that you've jumped in the bush.
I would invest my time and energy trying to not hit brush, rather than trying to find a bullet that will reliably penetrate brush and maintain a straight course. Your time would be better invested practicing from field positions at the shooting range so that you can thread the needle when it comes time to hit a buck that you've jumped in the bush.
I would be happy to look over any actual proof that you may have; I could be swayed. It is just I have never read anything that was anywhere near a compelling argument on the subject! It may be out there, I just haven't read it or come across anything of the sort!
Just practice shooting through the brush so that you can calculate the exact deflection that your bullets will have. Then you can adjust accordingly for your shots. Make sure to call "Bank" before you shoot so your hunting buddies know that you are trying to deflect it off the oak tree, then through the leaf, across to the fallen log and finally through the boiler maker 
Without worrying about shooting through bush, there is a potential need to go to a more controlled expansion bullet in order to get good penetration when the deer is not perfectly broadside. I often find when hunting in the bush that I am presented with less than perfect shots, and a heavier bullet is one way to ensure more penetration. I would be happier, personally, with a 165 grain or 180 grain (spire point is fine), rather than a fast expanding 150 grain bullet.
My experience is that the more spin on a bullet the more it tends to deflect. Smooth bore shot gun slug seems to want to go straight on to where it was headed, put a spin on it and it tends to deflect in the direction of the spin. A short heavy bullet is usually not spinning as fast as a long heavy bullet, so tends to deflect less on grass and leaves but branches and tree trunks bugger up all of them. Using open sights and shooting at closer range makes it easier to see if there is junk in the way. I find that the grass and leaves tend to disappear in my scope.
Personal Experience:
250 grain muzzleloader bullet at 1800 FPS. Hit a twig smaller than my little finger and deflected over 20 inches in a 10 yard space....Granted the rotational speed is less than most centrefire bullets but the bottom line is that 'brush bucking' bullets don't really exist and shooting at an animal without a clear shot is never a really good idea....
250 grain muzzleloader bullet at 1800 FPS. Hit a twig smaller than my little finger and deflected over 20 inches in a 10 yard space....Granted the rotational speed is less than most centrefire bullets but the bottom line is that 'brush bucking' bullets don't really exist and shooting at an animal without a clear shot is never a really good idea....
Did a little experiment on that half a lifetime ago. Set up a cardboard apple box 20' behind a decent stand of brush, just like you would find in the woods, barely able to see a deer through it. Shot 180gn .303 bullets at the box. Some of them through a small (3") tree that was in the brush. I also used my father's .30-30 with 170gn bullets in it. Of the 20 rounds fired, NOT ONE hit the box and only some shrapnel peppered it. I concluded then that it was better to shoot them in the open, so I have.
- Location
- south western ontario
I think this article is so interesting,,just last friday I tried shooting a fox at 142 yards,I originally seen him at 138 yards,by the time I got my rifle he moved to the opposite side of some brush.I could still see him clearly,so I pulled the trigger and was positive I made a perfect shot,but that bugger did mach-1 straight to the bush in the middle of the concession and showed no sighn of being hit.I was shooting 243 win nossler 55gr at 3945 fps mv and thought for sure I wouldn,t have to worry about a few twig's ''WRONG''.I will never pull a shot like that again,,I can only assume the bullet deflected or fragmented.EXCELLENT POST !
Ken Waters did an in depth report in Handloader in the late 70's and he did all sorts of testing from .223 up to .458 win mag. He used 1" hard wood dowels and aligned them so they were off center with each other at a 2 foot distance in kind of a big wooden box at 50 yards. He would shoot at the middle one right in the middle of the dowel and he placed a target 10 feet on the other side of the box. His findings was that there was a slight deflection with the lower calibers and as you went up the horsepower chain so to speak till you got to a 270 win or a 30/06 then there was enough energy to make very little difference and you had a great chance at hitting the target.
Then he shot them so the bullet would graze the dowel and not shoot it straight thru the middle. Well then it was an absolute turkey shoot as far as being able to hit the target 10 feet behind it. There was just as much chance at hitting the target with a .223 as there was with a .458 Mag.
He tried spire point, round nose and flat nose and it made no difference, absolute luck of the draw unless you hit a small tree squarely in the middle with something bigger than a 30/06.
He concluded by saying that you need to position yourself so that you are looking thru a clear tunnel of leaves and trees otherwise it is pure luck at hitting anything.
I am moving right now and I have all my old mags boxed up, I do know it was about 78-80 or there abouts.
The one that knows more than Ken Waters and Elmer Keith should post shortly and enlighten us all on his Holinesses findings.
Then he shot them so the bullet would graze the dowel and not shoot it straight thru the middle. Well then it was an absolute turkey shoot as far as being able to hit the target 10 feet behind it. There was just as much chance at hitting the target with a .223 as there was with a .458 Mag.
He tried spire point, round nose and flat nose and it made no difference, absolute luck of the draw unless you hit a small tree squarely in the middle with something bigger than a 30/06.
He concluded by saying that you need to position yourself so that you are looking thru a clear tunnel of leaves and trees otherwise it is pure luck at hitting anything.
I am moving right now and I have all my old mags boxed up, I do know it was about 78-80 or there abouts.
The one that knows more than Ken Waters and Elmer Keith should post shortly and enlighten us all on his Holinesses findings.
To me the bullet you choose makes the differance, I shoot a .308win with lots of Varget and Nosler Partitions. I was following a 200+lb whitetail on the run fired at him quartering away and bullet went through a 3" white pine,passed through ribs and broke off front leg on far side Buck went 50 yards and down.
A bullet weighs, say 180 gr. The twig, branch weighs as much or more. Unless you switch to a big 12 ga slug, there is no chance to "bush bust".
But, some bullets blow up on contact, some hang together. A heavy strong bullet is your best bet. but mssing the bush is better.
But, some bullets blow up on contact, some hang together. A heavy strong bullet is your best bet. but mssing the bush is better.
A bullet weighs, say 180 gr. The twig, branch weighs as much or more. Think in terms of two cars of about equal weight colliding. Unless you switch to a big 12 ga slug, there is no chance to "bush bust".
But, some bullets blow up on contact, some hang together. A heavy strong bullet is your best bet. but mssing the bush is better.
But, some bullets blow up on contact, some hang together. A heavy strong bullet is your best bet. but mssing the bush is better.
A bullet weighs, say 180 gr. The twig, branch weighs as much or more. Think in terms of two cars of about equal weight colliding. Unless you switch to a big 12 ga slug, there is no chance to "bush bust".
But, some bullets blow up on contact, some hang together. A heavy strong bullet is your best bet. But missing the bush is better.
But, some bullets blow up on contact, some hang together. A heavy strong bullet is your best bet. But missing the bush is better.
Are you kidding? Spin speed? How do you quantify this spun theory?
Furthermore ..... Since when does a 180gr RN fired spin slower than a 180 BT fired from the same rifle? [Don't forget, we're shooting shooting very short ranges in this thread.]
I'll shoot my 1.5x5 against your open sights on a twig test any day.
A good quality, low powered scope will always give you a better look than open sights. Higher magnification will obscure small twigs and junk, but since were' talking about BRUSH hunting here, it's a given that higher magnification is a hindrance and lower end scopes like 1.5x5 are in order.
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