Savage Edge .308 First Outing = Weak *Pics*

ridgearms

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Hi All,

I took the edge out yesterday. I put 20rnds through it. I bought it used but there were maybe 20 rounds fired prior. It was my first time shooting .308 and I have shot with a scope once before. Here were my groupings. Pretty weak.

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I should add that ammo was winchester 180gr from Wally World.

A competition shooter I met previously checked out my groupings and rifle and said it should shoot better than that. He took a business card and folded it then slid it under the end of the barrel and shot some 150 gr handloads he had. His group was about 1.5 inch. I noticed the stock touches the barrel at the end when bench rested. Any suggestions other than more practice, which I seriously need?
 
Try different ammo for one. Don't rest your rifle too far to the front on the sand bags. Try putting the bags closer to the trigger, closer to where your hand would be when holding offhand. See if you can get the spring lightened up on the trigger also they are usually pretty heavy. Remember squeeze don't jerk the trigger.
 
Maybe I missed it but...

For a first outting at 50 yards, this would be average.

For a first outting at 300 yards, that would be awesome.

So... what distance were you?

This is the exact rifle i'm looking at for a hunting rifle that I would care less about staying minty by taking it hunting.
 
As mentioned, try a different brand of ammunition, and different weights. For the .308 Winchester, I would look at the 150 and 165 grain loads, rather than the 180 grain.

Check the action screws to make sure that they are tight. A two inch group at 100 yards is adequate for a hunting rifle in most cases. This should allow you to put a round in a 6 inch circle at 300 yards, and be within the vital area of a Big Game animal if you do your part.
.
 
Hmm...

Try a few brands of ammo, I took my new Winchester M70 out yesterday and found it shoots terribly with 150gr bullets, but relatively well with 180gr. With 150gr bullets at 100 yards, I wasn't able to get smaller than a 2.5" group, but that shrunk almost immediately to 1.5" with 180gr Federal 30-06. Not fantastic, I know, but acceptable... especially considering it's cheap factory ammo, and it was really cold and windy. I'll definitely see how I can do with some better ammo in better conditions.
 
First off, don't be intimidated or discouraged because other people appear to be able to shoot better. Far too often a novice believes that shooting is simply beyond his ability when he compares his scores to those around him. Shooting is a learned endeavor, and the individual who can simply pick up a rifle without previous exposure, and shoot it well, is in the minority. The fellow who fired 1.5" groups with his handloads in your rifle had you at a disadvantage through both his ammunition and his experience.

The steps to making a good shot can be covered by the Acronym BRASS which is as follows . . .
Breath -
Breath for each shot, don't hold your breath for more than one shot. Breath deeply and slowly, and when you feel relaxed, hold your breath at the natural reparatory pause to break the shot. Some teach that it is better to shoot when all the air is forced from the lungs, but this takes more time, reduces the amount of time you can keep the sights in focus, and produces tremors in your hold more rapidly. The natural respiratory pause is very consistent from shot to shot, and it doesn't have to be forced. If you have held your breath so long that you feel the need to rush the shot, or that your vision is loosing focus, simply take the weight off the trigger, breath again, and try again.

Relax,
Don't tense up, keep your muscles relaxed, use your breathing to help relax.

Aim,
Make sure you have the correct eye relief so that you have a full round image in the scope. If you see a shadow on one side of the image in the scope, your eye relief must be adjusted. The scope might have to be moved ahead or back, your head might have to move ahead or back, or you may have to adjust the magnification if your scope is a variable power model. Make sure your eye is directly behind the scope. If you can, shoot with both eyes open.

Slack,
Doesn't apply to sporting rifles with single stage triggers, but military style triggers have slack which must be taken up until the sear is engaged.

Squeeze,
Everyone says squeeze the trigger, but it is not what we mean. When a baby grabs your finger and squeezes it, the squeeze is with the entire hand. When shooting a rifle, you should acquire a firm handshake grip on the stock, place the first pad of your trigger finger on the face of the trigger and press the trigger, gradually adding weight until the trigger breaks. Only your finger should move, the amount of grip tension you have on the stock should remain unchanged. There should be a space between your trigger finger and the stock, any pressure exerted to the side of the stock as you press the trigger will send the bullet wide of its mark. The thumb of the shooting hand I prefer to have pointed straight forward rather than over the top, as this helps prevent you from being bumped in the nose when the rifle recoils, particularly if the stock is on the short side.

Speaking of which most people shoot better with the correct length of pull, and most people do better when the stock is a tad too short compared to if the stock is a tad too long. If you think you need to have a good recoil pad installed, take the opportunity to have the stock adjusted to fit you correctly. Most adults do best with a stock that is 13"-13.5" inches long from the face of the trigger to the center of the butt plate, although some people measure to the toe of the stock.

Natural Point of Aim,
A string of shots will hit the target in a more uniform manner if the shooter first acquires a natural point of aim. When the rifle is on target, simply adjust your position until your eye and the sight is is alignment. This prevents muscling the rifle over when position shooting. Check ing the natural point of aim can be done simply by aiming the rifle at the target, then closing your eyes and allowing your muscles to go limp, when you open you eyes, if the rifle has swung off target, your position needs adjustment.

Trigger control exercise,
Place a coin on the top of the rifle barrel near the muzzle, then attempt to dry fire the rifle without disturbing it. Begin with a quarter, then try a dime. If you can press the trigger of your rifle without the dime falling off the barrel, you've got it, until then you need to work at it.

Don't spend all you time on the bench. Marksmanship is the test of shooting without removing all the wiggles and wobbles that are associated with human physiology, where the purpose of the bench is to remove to the extent possible the weakness of using the human body as a gun platform. Once a baseline of accuracy has been established for the rifle and ammunition, and the sight-in process has been completed, start shooting from field positions, with a sling if you have one. The use of a shooting sling can improve your ability to hit from supported positions by as much as 30%.

Hope this helps.
 
Good advice from Boomer. Also make sure the forend AND the butt are supported with sandbags. You should not be supporting the rifle with your body at all merely grasping the pistol grip and touching your shots off when you have a perfect sight picture. When benchresting a rifle you should try to take all the variables out of the equation. The other stuff (shooting from field positions) requires more practice and will improve over time.
 
Those groups were at 100 yards. I will definitely try the techniques you suggested boomer. I had sandbags under the stock too.

I had the rifle really far forward on the bags. My breathing and trigger pull skills were non existant. I will definitely try a lighter load next time. Do you guys think I should keep the business card folded under the barrel or remove it?
 
personally, i'd remove the business card. my thing is consistency when it comes to modifications to my rifles. IMO, a business card will get wet or work its way out when hunting. this will cause inconsistency when you need it most!

your first step is trying diffrent ammo, then once you figure out what works well, then stick to it.

i'm not sure if there are replacement triggers available for the edge yet, but i found my edge to have a very heavy trigger pull. for me a light trigger can make a big diffrence when target shooting. hunting, i find doesn't make me much diffrence.
 
I agree about the card not being a good permanent solution. I will remove next time and try the new tricks you guys have suggested. Have any of you stiffened the forends in any way or is it not worth it?
 
There is a few mechanical things to check too, like your scope mounts and your action screws. I have come across a few Savages that had action screws loose, and this could hurt your group size as well.

Set yourself up with a scoped 22 and practice at 50 yds, lots. It is alot easier to focus on your techniques when your mind is not anticipating muzzle blast and recoil as much.
 
220Swifty that is some GREAT advice!!! Before I go out and shoot and sight in a new rifle, I take my trusty Cooey 64b with me and run 20-30 shots through that first to get rid of the adrenaline rush of playing with a new gun.
 
Rimfires should follow centerfires to the range.
It works for me and my daughter.
Practice up on the plinker and get the mind focused with the eyes,
trigger finger and target.
Once this becomes easy, then shoot the big one.
Lots of practice makes for tighter groups.
Great advice boomer.
Need to remember the BRASS.
Thanks.
 
If you notice the pressure wedge under the barrel near the fore-end of the stock helped, you can make a more permanent solution, without paying for a bedding job at a smith.

I did this for a friend a Savage 111, which has a poor bedding surface in my opinion, forward of the front pillar. So I took a broken Butler Creek flip up cap, and started cutting small C's from the scope contour. I then glued together as many as I needed to snug the barrel to the stock when the barreled action was fastened to the stock. The next step was to determine how far back from the fore-end it had to be placed inside the stock, by squeezing where the stock ended, to the barrel and finding where there was the least amount of play, while leaving a tiny crack between the sides of the barrel, and the stock edges to keep the cooling effect of a free floated barrel.

After determining the point of where I felt it belonged, I mixed a small amount of epoxy, roughed up the inside of the stock for bonding and poured the epoxy into the stock, placed the wedge in with the C opening facing up to accept the barrel. Next, I fastened the barrel to the stock and let it dry. Just like painting, masking tape will likely be your best friend.

The idea came across me when I learned 700 BDL's were pressure bedded to the wooden stocks back in early production.

A 450 dollar rifle just wasn't something he was going to spend much money on to accurize. The difference wasn't drastic, but still easy to notice.
 
Another competition shooter gave me the same advice as above. He said to get a .22 and make sure you are bang on with it then move onto the bigger calibres. What is a good starter .22 that one could be fairly accurate with? I plan to go to the 300 yard precision shoot at the range and get a better idea of how the competition guys do it.
 
Another competition shooter gave me the same advice as above. He said to get a .22 and make sure you are bang on with it then move onto the bigger calibres. What is a good starter .22 that one could be fairly accurate with? I plan to go to the 300 yard precision shoot at the range and get a better idea of how the competition guys do it.

What is your budget?

A savage can be a damn fine tack driver, but I don't find they fit like a full sized centrefire. The upside is that they are priced very reasonably.

CZ makes a high quality rimfire that won't break you, but it ain't cheap either. They seem to be built a little bigger and fit more like a centrefire.

I shoot a winchester 69A as my main go to gopher killer, and a savage 93 in 22 WMR for a little more punch, and to inspire rodent acrobatics. Both are good guns, and they are totally different from one another. It all depends on exactly what you want to do.
 
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