3 Cartridges - One Powder - Which One?

Drachenblut

Drachenblut

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Hello,

I am looking to buy a single, all purpose powder for my handloading needs. I will be loading ONLY 3 calibers, using Lee Dipper Spoons: .303 British, 7.62X54R and 6.5X50SR Japanese. I am aware that a powder for 3 totally different rounds may not be the most efficient, but for my use the concept is economical.

I have cross referenced 2 seemingly good powders for all 3 rounds, easily loaded with the spoons. They are:

H335 and BL-C(2)

Which of these would YOU, as fellow reloaders, choose for these rounds?

I checked the comparable load data with the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center and all my loads would be under maximum suggested.

Let the advice/different views begin!
 
i really DON'T care for the spoon concept UNLESS you back it up with a SCALE ; typically these things throw light, by at least a couple of grains, and the use of the next biggest will get you into heaps of trouble in terms of a significant overload- you must have a reloading manual b/c you know what loads use a common powder; either get to know someone with a scale and verify those spoons , or just get a scale yourself- that way you'll KNOW what powder charge you're throwing. also we can't use the information you're giving us without knowing WHAT BULLET WEIGHT you want to use- the use of lighter bullets requires faster powder, the use of heavier, slower- it strikes me that while you have a manual, you HAVEN'T READ ALL OF IT or you would know this;your rifle will also dictate to you what it likes by giving you the best group size- what i do is fire a 5 round factory group( not 3) from a bench rested position within a controlled environment ( no wind, etc) and see how that groups; then i take my selected load and try to "improve " on that- it's also freely published as to what the factory loads for each cartridge are- so you have a starting point
 
I can't believe you are being that tight and not getting a cheap scale. Why not just shoot a ball of wax? You will still get the same noise and it's even more cost effective than lead.:rolleyes:
 
I use lee dippers to take the powder from the bottle to the scale. Even when you level the dipper perfectly you will get variations in powder +/- 2 grains. You're asking for #### accuracy. Varget would probably be my choice.
 
t-star said:
i really DON'T care for the spoon concept UNLESS you back it up with a SCALE ; typically these things throw light, by at least a couple of grains, and the use of the next biggest will get you into heaps of trouble in terms of a significant overload- you must have a reloading manual b/c you know what loads use a common powder; either get to know someone with a scale and verify those spoons , or just get a scale yourself- that way you'll KNOW what powder charge you're throwing. also we can't use the information you're giving us without knowing WHAT BULLET WEIGHT you want to use- the use of lighter bullets requires faster powder, the use of heavier, slower- it strikes me that while you have a manual, you HAVEN'T READ ALL OF IT or you would know this;your rifle will also dictate to you what it likes by giving you the best group size- what i do is fire a 5 round factory group( not 3) from a bench rested position within a controlled environment ( no wind, etc) and see how that groups; then i take my selected load and try to "improve " on that- it's also freely published as to what the factory loads for each cartridge are- so you have a starting point
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I agree. I started loading 35 years ago with Lee loaders and loaded good shooting ammo with them, but the first upgrade I did was to buy a scale.

Regarding powders, H4895 is about the right burn rate as well (assuming bullets in the 140-165 grain range) and is a bit less affected by temperature and would likely fill the cases a bit better. Admittedly doesn't flow as nicely as a ball powder.
 
IMR4064 or IMR4895. These work well with just about any MILSURP ctg. If you are going to use the dipper things, avoid the fine ball powders and stay with the bulkier 4064/4895. The 2 most important things for a reloader are a scale and a manual.
 
While I also heartily endorse the acquisition of a scale, I do know that some pretty good ammo can be loaded with the "dipper" method if you are consistent in it's use.
When I started reloading over 4 decades ago, I had a dipper load that shot ragged holes consistently [at reduced velocity, of course, but the deer didn't seem to notice, they still fell over, dead]
I am going to play Devil's advocate here, and suggest that you will get more consistent charges using the dipper with Ball powders, but also agree that IMR or H4895 would work very well in the three chamberings you own.
Of the two you mention, H335 would be my choice. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Darn it Eagleye, you beat me to it. My mind had already ran through my reply, when there it was, written out in your answer!
With the load data Lee provides, you couldn't heap a scoop enough to be dangerous.
I started quite a few handloaders out on the little Lee kitchen table pound them together tools, and everyone was well satisfied.
Accurate loads certainly can be made with them.
And each of the three calibres you mention will indeed, be completely satisfactory for hunting, with loads a bit lighter.
I think that 4895 would be one powder that would be for all three calibres.
 
"...loaded with the spoons..." Pitch 'em and use a scale. The scoops can vary the powder charge plus or minus a full grain. Sille things are in CC's too. CC's are not a unit of measure for gun powder.
You have to work up the load for each rifle too.
 
agilent_one said:
+1 on the scale. Also try WC735 from higginsons. Cheap.
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This is my powder. I use it for 6 different cartridges. It is by no means the BEST performer for each and every cartridge, but it fits my budget and delivers more than satisfactory results for me and I guarantee it will do the same for you.

I started with a Lee Loader and was able to turn out accurate ammo that kept me hunting for many years. the trick is to use the same set of motions for each and every load you dip. Push the dipper into the powder, tap it to fill it, pull it out, tap to settle, strike off the top with a card, and dump it in the case.
 
but you have no idea HOW MUCH powder you actually threw- moreover , unless you look at the cc number, ALL the scoops are yellow- or red, if you go back far enough- so if one scoop happens to travel into the wrong box( and who looks at the cc numbers?) you're ROYALLY SCREWED- i even wrote lee years ago( yes, i fell for the scoop scheme too) to see if there was a table to convert the scoop numbers( thats how they did it back then - the scoops were numbered- a certain scoop gave you so many grains of a certain powder- there was a table in the lid) to ccs, but they said it was impossible- there were some 24 scoops in that set-
 
t-star said:
but you have no idea HOW MUCH powder you actually threw- moreover , unless you look at the cc number, ALL the scoops are yellow- or red, if you go back far enough- so if one scoop happens to travel into the wrong box( and who looks at the cc numbers?) you're ROYALLY SCREWED- i even wrote lee years ago( yes, i fell for the scoop scheme too) to see if there was a table to convert the scoop numbers( thats how they did it back then - the scoops were numbered- a certain scoop gave you so many grains of a certain powder- there was a table in the lid) to ccs, but they said it was impossible- there were some 24 scoops in that set-
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Who looks at the charge weight when using a scale? Who actually zeroes their scale before weighing charges? Who really uses calibration weights before using their digital scale? Who really looks at the type of powder before they throw a measure? Who uses a press of sorts to insert primers rather than a hammer and nail??

Really? Out of all the dangers inherent in this hobby, this is the question you, as a reloader, need to ask? Am I using the right dipper? Kind of goes without saying, don'cha think, that you would check the dipper size? I used dipper system for close to 20yrs. I have the entire set in its box and rarely used the one that came with the die set because you couldn't get the max use out of your powder, but with a combination of dippers, you could.
 
Absolutely nothing wrong with the dippers if you use them right. Hell, some (not me) would argue that volume loading may produce less deviation than mass loading.

I've even made and modified a few scoops for a couple cartridges.
 
In truth, I have used the scoops for a few years now. I have a set from 1989, yellow spoons numbered and with CC's. I've found with my method, I've gotten good consistent accuracy: Fill a small, clean bowl with powder (preferably ball/spherical), scoop, shake slightly side to side, cut the top with a playing card, and pour into the case.
In cases when using max loads, I've often scooped and found the powder sitting 3mm or so below the top of the scoop, so it makes it even safer from that perspective. Any of you nice, friendly, making lotsa money or retired shooters want to spare a cheap digital scale for a student? :)
As for bullet weights in grains: 140 for 6.5 Jap, 174 for .303 Brit, and 174/180 for 7.62X54R.
 
Drachenblut said:
In truth, I have used the scoops for a few years now. I have a set from 1989, yellow spoons numbered and with CC's. I've found with my method, I've gotten good consistent accuracy: Fill a small, clean bowl with powder (preferably ball/spherical), scoop, shake slightly side to side, cut the top with a playing card, and pour into the case.
In cases when using max loads, I've often scooped and found the powder sitting 3mm or so below the top of the scoop, so it makes it even safer from that perspective. Any of you nice, friendly, making lotsa money or retired shooters want to spare a cheap digital scale for a student? :)
As for bullet weights in grains: 140 for 6.5 Jap, 174 for .303 Brit, and 174/180 for 7.62X54R.
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you might want to re-think the digital end of it- i've found them too sensitive and slow to settle; i've got one that i got for 30 off e-bay complete with checkweights and it sits at the end of my bench to check the WEIGHT OF THE ENTIRE LOADED ROUND - that's right, i weigh the entire thing to see if it's within tolerances- i know what it SHOULD be and if it's a squib or a double charge( almost impossible with rifle, but possible with pistol) it shows on that last step- anyway, the beam will settle faster and suit you better - mine's an old BONANZA( pacific- hornady) that i got back in the 70's or 80's- it's served me well, much better than the 505, which broke the beam and i never could get it replaced- too expensive
 
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