Interesting WG Variant (Pics for Webley nuts)

[jethunter]

Here's a WG variation I haven't seen before. A friend in the US found this in a pawn shop and sent me some pictures to help him identify it. It has a Webley No4 "Pryse" type cylinder retainer (note the large screw with arrow engraving), which I haven't seen on a WG before.

It's an early Webley WG Model 1886. Identified in the book "Webley Revolvers". Pics:

 

[cantom]

I wonder how much that went for at a pawn shop?

 

[jethunter]

Asking price was higher than you might expect at $1500. Antique webleys are appreciating quite rapidly and anyone with an internet connection can research current prices, even pawnshop owners. The days of inexpensive webleys are mostly gone.

 

[dingus]

If them pics are of the gun the rear side cover plate isnt fitting on the gun correct.
Rare nice looking guns tho.

 

[jethunter]

Yeah, I saw that. Don't know if it's a fitting problem or just a loose screw on the inspection cover. I'm thinking of making an offer just so I can get it up here to have a closer look at it...

 

[cantom]

If them pics are of the gun the rear side cover plate isnt fitting on the gun correct.
Rare nice looking guns tho.

Good catch Dingus! Yeah, something's out of whack there...looks like a plate taken off a different model of gun.

And notice the trigger is checkered?
Webley didn't do that did they?

All of those screws look to be cranked down and properly centered.

 

[jethunter]

Good catch Dingus! Yeah, something's out of whack there...looks like a plate taken off a different model of gun.

And notice the trigger is checkered?
Webley didn't do that did they?

All of those screws look to be cranked down and properly centered.

Holy crap. Sorry I offended everyone's delicate sensibilities. I thought some people might be interested in seeing pictures of a cool old revolver that's a rare variant but obviously I misjudged the audience.

FYI webley did make checkered triggers and just about anything else you wanted on a special order. WG revolvers could be special ordered by army officers through the Army & Navy Cooperative Society Limited, which incidentally just happens to be what this one is marked. I'd guess the checkering is original but i don't actually know and neither will anyone else on this board.

Anyway, feel free to not look. Sheesh.

 

[bob ford]

congrats your friend has a very rare webley ,this model is for sale for around 5000$ here,can be wrong but someone told that no more than 400 guns where made of this model.....??

 

[cantom]

Hey, Jethunter...nobody was trying to offend you! As you mentioned it's not yours anyway.

And yes, it's an interesting and rare variant.

That was a fair comment about the side plate, the line doesn't match top or bottom. I've seen plenty of pics of Webleys and never seen one fitted like that.

This is a pic from the net of a different model of WG but you can see how the line is perfectly blended.

Then look at the red circles.

 

[Southlander]

Jet, I believe it is an 1882 model WG with an 1894 barrel catch and side plate.

 

[jethunter]

...That was a fair comment about the side plate, the line doesn't match top or bottom. I've seen plenty of pics of Webleys and never seen one fitted like that...

Thanks for stating the obvious, especially after Dingus pointed it out to you. Thanks also for the picture (that is one crappy looking WG btw) but if i want to look at one I'll just take it out of the gun safe.

 

[jethunter]

congrats your friend has a very rare webley ,this model is for sale for around 5000$ here,can be wrong but someone told that no more than 400 guns where made of this model.....??

I think you are correct about the number made, according to "Webley revolvers" the observed serial number range for the Webley W.G. Model 1886 ran from s/n 1467 to s/n 1876. This one is s/n 1861.

$5000? Wow, what part of the world is that? My friend didn't buy it but I have made an offer through him to the pawnshop and just waiting to see of it's accepted.

 

[jethunter]

Jet, I believe it is an 1882 model WG with an 1894 barrel catch and side plate.

There is some similarities but I'm fairly certain it's not a Model 1882. Both the 1882 and 1884 models had a much smaller hinge. None of the examples I've seen had the "Pryse" type cylinder retainer screw with the arrow engraving.

First 2 scans are a picture and writeup on the M1886 WG, third scan is a picture of the 1882/1884 model - note the differences in the hinge.

 

[Southlander]

It's not a Model 1882. The 1882 and 1884 models had a completely different hinge, and they didn't have the "Pryse" type cylinder retainer screw with the arrow engraving.
\I haven't figured out how to get the pictures, but here's the text from the book "Webley Revolvers". Note the bolded text.

I believe the smaller hinge area is why the sideplate is so much thicker and doesn't match. The pryse type cylinder release was used on the 1882 WG and up until 1885 when it was replaced with a screw according to Dowell. Funny how they say different things.

Rare webley regardless, too bad about the mismatched parts.

 

[jethunter]

I believe the smaller hinge area is why the sideplate is so much thicker and doesn't match. The pryse type cylinder release was used on the 1882 WG and up until 1885 when it was replaced with a screw according to Dowell. Funny how they say different things.

Rare webley regardless, too bad about the mismatched parts.

This one does not have the small hinge of the 1882 and 1884 models. The scans I attached to the previous post had pics of both. Sorry, by the time i got better scans done and attached you had probably already read it and didn't see them.

There's so much variation in webleys it's hard to say anything with 100% certainty - BUT - all of the examples I've seen of the models prior to 1886 had a cylinder release that worked on the same basic principal (interrupted pin) as a Pryse, but were activated by a push button unlike the Pryse which used a rotating screw. The M1886 cylinder retainer is exactly like the pryse, with a rotating screw.

As you have noted, it sounds like Dowell is correct in that the "screw" type (Pryse) retainer was adopted later, which is what we see in the M1886. The scans in the previous post aren't the clearest in the world but if you blow them up it's fairly obvious.

Personally I don't think there are any mismatched parts but I'll know in a few weeks 'cause I just bought it. The nice part this time is i have a buddy that's already inspected it so I know a bit more about the condition than usual when buying from the US.

 

[cyclone]

Thanks for stating the obvious, especially after Dingus pointed it out to you. Thanks also for the picture (that is one crappy looking WG btw) but if i want to look at one I'll just take it out of the gun safe.

Dude !...

Seriously , of all the people to "harsh" on........why cantom ?

He's one of the good ones !

 

[Southlander]

I didn't see the picture when I posted, I see what you mean.

Enjoy your webley!

 

[david doyle]

well like you say everyone knows what old webleys are worth so the incentive to put together a parts gun is pretty high. Best heartfelt advice I can give is that if you don't know exactly what your buying either pass or make darn sure you can get your money back out of the parts you can see in the pics.

Cool thread.

 

[jethunter]

Dude !...

Seriously , of all the people to "harsh" on........why cantom ?

He's one of the good ones !

Well, because i thought he was being an ass. Of course I have been known to over-react on occasion.

Edit: Ok, on second look Cantom's post wasn't so terrible. My bad. Sorry.

 

[jethunter]

well like you say everyone knows what old webleys are worth so the incentive to put together a parts gun is pretty high. Best heartfelt advice I can give is that if you don't know exactly what your buying either pass or make darn sure you can get your money back out of the parts you can see in the pics.

Cool thread.

That's good advice, but I pretty well know what I'm getting - I have a buddy with some antique webley experience who has already looked at it so it's not such a big gamble. In his opinion the side plate is either from another 1886 or misfitted, not mismatched from a different model. I can probably live with it either way if the rest of the gun is as good as it's been described. We'll see when it gets here.